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Isn't it kind of interesting that normative respect for software engineers is so low that even when salaries are $80k to $150k on a team, that same team is goin

Isn't it kind of interesting that normative respect for software engineers is so low that even when salaries are $80k to $150k on a team, that same team is going to be sitting in an open plan setting and talked down to by management? It's funny because software developers are more kin to the 'real professions' like law when it comes to earnings potential: like lawyers, a software dev can simply make money by setting up his or her own shop with very* little capital investment beyond education. Edit: Now that I think about it, the loss of respect might come from the fact that software devs have a 'management' looking over their shoulders at all. In other 'true' professions, the ones who are liable to cut-costs, haze, or otherwise pour abuse on a professional would also be in the same profession. E.g. if you're a lawyer, you may work 100 hour weeks for the first 8 years, but you're doing so not because some pointy-haired MBA is telling you, but because X lawyer with prestige who owns the company is telling you to. So even though the outcome is the same, it may feel more okay because its coming from someone of your same class/category.

cema 10y ago
coming from someone of your same class/category I think you make a very good point here: it is coming from a colleague, someone who is on (more or less) the same track as you are, only a little ahead of you in terms of the career path.
eli_gottlieb 10y ago
> Isn't it kind of interesting that normative respect for software engineers is so low that even when salaries are $80k to $150k on a team, that same team is going to be sitting in an open plan setting and talked down to by management? Nah, that's just how wage-labor works.
- dismantlethesun 10y ago
  Oh I agree that is how it works. Though I still think it interesting. Historically, there's been a push-pull between engineering and the professions. Engineering (artillery, civil, metal-working and the like) being seen as low class labour where as the professions (law/medicine/natural philosophy then science) was seen as high class work. I once believed this was because engineering always had a physical outcome, where as professional work could be done as a pure though experiment (e.g. law) or had literal connotations of power of live (e.g. medicine). But looking at computer science/engineering, I wonder if that's a good hypothesis. CS is still suffering from the same low-prestige status despite having billionaires rise from its ranks, and despite that it has no physical equivalent.

cema 10y ago

coming from someone of your same class/category I think you make a very good point here: it is coming from a colleague, someone who is on (more or less) the same track as you are, only a little ahead of you in terms of the career path.

eli_gottlieb 10y ago

> Isn't it kind of interesting that normative respect for software engineers is so low that even when salaries are $80k to $150k on a team, that same team is going to be sitting in an open plan setting and talked down to by management? Nah, that's just how wage-labor works.

dismantlethesun 10y ago
Oh I agree that is how it works. Though I still think it interesting. Historically, there's been a push-pull between engineering and the professions. Engineering (artillery, civil, metal-working and the like) being seen as low class labour where as the professions (law/medicine/natural philosophy then science) was seen as high class work. I once believed this was because engineering always had a physical outcome, where as professional work could be done as a pure though experiment (e.g. law) or had literal connotations of power of live (e.g. medicine). But looking at computer science/engineering, I wonder if that's a good hypothesis. CS is still suffering from the same low-prestige status despite having billionaires rise from its ranks, and despite that it has no physical equivalent.