4 ms·

Actually, as a Brit (and so an expert in these matters), it seemed a fairly good definition for me. It's similar to how class is represented in Downton Abbey an

by blowski 10y ago

Actually, as a Brit (and so an expert in these matters), it seemed a fairly good definition for me. It's similar to how class is represented in Downton Abbey and in books like "Watching the English" (Kate Fox). As far as I know, there are no formal and universal definitions of the class system. Certainly in Britain, class has almost nothing to do with your income or bank balance. A lot of the upper class are completely broke, while there are many "working class millionaires".

exstudent2 10y ago
Americans don't have the baggage of nobility so don't have to wedge the class system into a historical (but no longer relevant) model. In the US all that matters is money. It might come from your parents, it might not.
- xapata 10y ago
  > In the US all that matters is money. Not entirely. Perhaps more than in the UK, yet behavior and social circle are still a factor in the US.
om2 10y ago
Isn't the notion of "upper class" in Britain usually based on peerage titles or being related to people who have them, as opposed to business ownership? A small business person is almost the epitome of middle class, to the point that impoverished aristocrats would never stoop to such an occupation.
- internaut 10y ago
  Sort of. It is possible to buy yourself a title. Many Europeans are descended from people that potentially give them the right to nobility. Few invoke that in everyday life though. So you could become an aristocrat if you really wanted to be, by blue blood or by financial assistance. In the old days somebody successful in business would often transition to aristocracy by taking on a name and the associated trappings. It is something of a controversial area! In Japan it is still common for an unrelated successful young man to be adopted into the family tree of a business dynasty. I suspect the upper class alternates between being meritocratic and being hereditary, while claiming 'it ever twas'.
dpark 10y ago
> Certainly in Britain, class has almost nothing to do with your income or bank balance. That's fine and indicates you're using a more historical definition, but doesn't make the parent comment accurate. A decidedly lower-middle class individual can start a business and this will in no way suddenly push them into the upper class. If they make millions, they still won't be upper class by your definition unless maybe they do so well they somehow get a lordship or at least a knighthood out of it.
- coldtea 10y ago
  See another comment below: "I think infodroid was using 'business owner' in the sense of 'captains of industry', not 'local corner store proprietor'".
vonmoltke 10y ago
I think, in general, that US and UK ideas of socioeconomic class are different. The UK puts much more emphasis on the "socio", and the US in the "economic".
tvanantwerp 10y ago
Some of the biggest disagreements between my wife and I occurred as a result of her have this British definition of class and me having the American one. She told me early on, she wanted a "middle class" life. I thought, "Oh, that's easy!" But she really meant she wanted to live like a doctor or lawyer. I've been busting my ass ever since I figured out what she actually meant.

by blowski 10y ago

exstudent2 10y ago

Americans don't have the baggage of nobility so don't have to wedge the class system into a historical (but no longer relevant) model. In the US all that matters is money. It might come from your parents, it might not.

xapata 10y ago
> In the US all that matters is money. Not entirely. Perhaps more than in the UK, yet behavior and social circle are still a factor in the US.

om2 10y ago

Isn't the notion of "upper class" in Britain usually based on peerage titles or being related to people who have them, as opposed to business ownership? A small business person is almost the epitome of middle class, to the point that impoverished aristocrats would never stoop to such an occupation.

internaut 10y ago
Sort of. It is possible to buy yourself a title. Many Europeans are descended from people that potentially give them the right to nobility. Few invoke that in everyday life though. So you could become an aristocrat if you really wanted to be, by blue blood or by financial assistance. In the old days somebody successful in business would often transition to aristocracy by taking on a name and the associated trappings. It is something of a controversial area! In Japan it is still common for an unrelated successful young man to be adopted into the family tree of a business dynasty. I suspect the upper class alternates between being meritocratic and being hereditary, while claiming 'it ever twas'.

dpark 10y ago

> Certainly in Britain, class has almost nothing to do with your income or bank balance. That's fine and indicates you're using a more historical definition, but doesn't make the parent comment accurate. A decidedly lower-middle class individual can start a business and this will in no way suddenly push them into the upper class. If they make millions, they still won't be upper class by your definition unless maybe they do so well they somehow get a lordship or at least a knighthood out of it.

coldtea 10y ago
See another comment below: "I think infodroid was using 'business owner' in the sense of 'captains of industry', not 'local corner store proprietor'".

vonmoltke 10y ago

I think, in general, that US and UK ideas of socioeconomic class are different. The UK puts much more emphasis on the "socio", and the US in the "economic".

tvanantwerp 10y ago

Some of the biggest disagreements between my wife and I occurred as a result of her have this British definition of class and me having the American one. She told me early on, she wanted a "middle class" life. I thought, "Oh, that's easy!" But she really meant she wanted to live like a doctor or lawyer. I've been busting my ass ever since I figured out what she actually meant.