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Take a look at Unit 731 vs. the Nazi human experimentation program during WWII. In exchange for the data gathered through 731's history, the U.S. turned a blind

by Cyph0n 10y ago

Take a look at Unit 731 vs. the Nazi human experimentation program during WWII. In exchange for the data gathered through 731's history, the U.S. turned a blind eye. The Nazis however were tried by U.S. military courts for conducting such experiments. Hypocrisy at its finest. Unit 731: "Instead of being tried for war crimes, the researchers involved in Unit 731 were secretly given immunity by the U.S. in exchange for the data they gathered through human experimentation." Nazis: "After the war, these crimes were tried at what became known as the Doctors' Trial, and revulsion at the abuses perpetrated led to the development of the Nuremberg Code of medical ethics."

M_Grey 10y ago
We did that with plenty of Nazis too... hence NASA. 'I Aim For The Stars'..."(But Sometimes I Hit London)"
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  True, but one was secret (Unit 731) and the other wasn't if I recall correctly.
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    That too. The Japanese did a much better job of destroying evidence of such crimes, while the Germans mostly meticulously documented them, and they were too busy running like hell from the Soviets to destroy them all, once they saw what was in store for them.
    - wtbob 10y ago
      And also the Germans surrendered 8 May, while the Japanese surrendered 14 August. Over the course of that quarter it had become more and more apparent that WWII wasn't going to end soon (it didn't, in fact, end until 15 March 1991), and that the Soviets were going to be the next enemy, and that we'd need to preserve Germany and Japan in some form (rather than adhering to the earlier Morgenthau Plan, which would have rurified all of Germany, in the process killing millions and making it much easier for the Soviets to roll through Europe). If there were any fairness, we'd have hanged the Japanese emperor, and quite a few more of his subjects responsible for crimes against humanity. But the political-military situation didn't allow it.
      - M_Grey 10y ago
        It was, and in many ways still is, remarkable that Japan and the US have managed to get along so well when you consider those desperate starting points. In the end, I think it's fair to say that the choices made in regards to holding some individuals accountable for their crimes at the expense of the broader reconstruction effort was the right one. Not easy to make at the time though, I would imagine.
- tomcam 10y ago
  Downvoted but why! Genuinely curious
Spooky23 10y ago
That's the difference between utter destruction of the enemy vs an unconditional surrender with conditions. The US was put in a shitty position by the opportunistic Soviet intervention. So we ended up with a curbed emperor, an American who fancied himself an emperor, and whitewash. Remember that the Republic of China was still a thing, and the political implications of taking a relative soft approach to Japanese atrocities in China would have pretty severe blowback.
- dkural 10y ago
  The Soviet invasion was not "opportunistic" at all, if you mean by that eating a meal someone else has prepared. The USSR had a far bigger role in defeating Nazism than the Allies sans Soviets.
  - gumby 10y ago
    I think Spooky23 meant the entry of the Soviet Union into the pacific war on August 9 1945. Stalin had promised (At Potsdam or Tehran I don't remember) to enter the war but had hung back -- don't blame him; the war in Europe was massive enough, with the Soviets already doing the majority of the Allied fighting. Just as the western Allies figured why not let the Soviets take the hit, Stalin had nothing to lose by letting UK+ANZUS wear themselves out in the Pacific. But once it was clear how the wind was blowing, why not jump in?
    - Noseshine 10y ago
      > But once it was clear how the wind was blowing, why not jump in? Or: Once the war in the West was over, which required all available Russian resources, Stalin immediately redeployed to the Far East. Within just a few weeks of ending the war in Europe Russians managed to go on the offensive in the East. That is an impressive feat, given the vast distances.
      - hga 10y ago
        Indeed an impressive feat, but in physical terms utterly irrelevant to actually ending the war, since their ability to more than morally effect the home islands of Japan was all but nil. The moral effect of running through the Imperial Japanese Army in Manchuria "like crap through a goose" might have been decisive in allowing the surrender to proceed, in suppressing the IJA leadership. Heck, their predictions about how they'd stop or even bleed us in Kyushuu, where they had a massive superiority in numbers and stopping was very much in the cards, looked very different in the light of the 2nd bombing, which showed the first wasn't a one off, and how they were being owned by the Red Army (not that that should have been a surprise after 1939).

by Cyph0n 10y ago

M_Grey 10y ago

We did that with plenty of Nazis too... hence NASA. 'I Aim For The Stars'..."(But Sometimes I Hit London)"

Cyph0n 10y ago
True, but one was secret (Unit 731) and the other wasn't if I recall correctly.
- M_Grey 10y ago
  That too. The Japanese did a much better job of destroying evidence of such crimes, while the Germans mostly meticulously documented them, and they were too busy running like hell from the Soviets to destroy them all, once they saw what was in store for them.
  - wtbob 10y ago
    And also the Germans surrendered 8 May, while the Japanese surrendered 14 August. Over the course of that quarter it had become more and more apparent that WWII wasn't going to end soon (it didn't, in fact, end until 15 March 1991), and that the Soviets were going to be the next enemy, and that we'd need to preserve Germany and Japan in some form (rather than adhering to the earlier Morgenthau Plan, which would have rurified all of Germany, in the process killing millions and making it much easier for the Soviets to roll through Europe). If there were any fairness, we'd have hanged the Japanese emperor, and quite a few more of his subjects responsible for crimes against humanity. But the political-military situation didn't allow it.
    - M_Grey 10y ago
      It was, and in many ways still is, remarkable that Japan and the US have managed to get along so well when you consider those desperate starting points. In the end, I think it's fair to say that the choices made in regards to holding some individuals accountable for their crimes at the expense of the broader reconstruction effort was the right one. Not easy to make at the time though, I would imagine.
tomcam 10y ago
Downvoted but why! Genuinely curious

Spooky23 10y ago

That's the difference between utter destruction of the enemy vs an unconditional surrender with conditions. The US was put in a shitty position by the opportunistic Soviet intervention. So we ended up with a curbed emperor, an American who fancied himself an emperor, and whitewash. Remember that the Republic of China was still a thing, and the political implications of taking a relative soft approach to Japanese atrocities in China would have pretty severe blowback.

dkural 10y ago
The Soviet invasion was not "opportunistic" at all, if you mean by that eating a meal someone else has prepared. The USSR had a far bigger role in defeating Nazism than the Allies sans Soviets.
- gumby 10y ago
  I think Spooky23 meant the entry of the Soviet Union into the pacific war on August 9 1945. Stalin had promised (At Potsdam or Tehran I don't remember) to enter the war but had hung back -- don't blame him; the war in Europe was massive enough, with the Soviets already doing the majority of the Allied fighting. Just as the western Allies figured why not let the Soviets take the hit, Stalin had nothing to lose by letting UK+ANZUS wear themselves out in the Pacific. But once it was clear how the wind was blowing, why not jump in?
  - Noseshine 10y ago
    > But once it was clear how the wind was blowing, why not jump in? Or: Once the war in the West was over, which required all available Russian resources, Stalin immediately redeployed to the Far East. Within just a few weeks of ending the war in Europe Russians managed to go on the offensive in the East. That is an impressive feat, given the vast distances.
    - hga 10y ago
      Indeed an impressive feat, but in physical terms utterly irrelevant to actually ending the war, since their ability to more than morally effect the home islands of Japan was all but nil. The moral effect of running through the Imperial Japanese Army in Manchuria "like crap through a goose" might have been decisive in allowing the surrender to proceed, in suppressing the IJA leadership. Heck, their predictions about how they'd stop or even bleed us in Kyushuu, where they had a massive superiority in numbers and stopping was very much in the cards, looked very different in the light of the 2nd bombing, which showed the first wasn't a one off, and how they were being owned by the Red Army (not that that should have been a surprise after 1939).