6 ms·

VR Devs Pull Support for Oculus Rift Until Palmer Luckey Steps Down

35 points by davidgerard 10y ago

leereeves 10y ago
Rioters are burning down Charlotte, Hillary hasn't said a thing (except to doubt the police), but Donald Trump is the problem? > "I'm not saying all the people, but we've got the instigators that are coming in from the outside. They were coming in on buses from out of state. If you go back and look at some of the arrests that were made last night. I can about say probably 70% of those had out-of-state IDs. They're not coming from Charlotte." http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/23/charlotte_police_70_of_rioters_arrested_had_out_of_state_ids.html http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/23/charlotte_... Someone should find out who paid for those buses.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- undersuit 10y ago
  Criminals I tell you. /s For all those that don't know about the geography of Charlotte, NC the city exists along the North Carolina/South Carolina border. https://mecksheriffweb.mecklenburgcountync.gov/Arrest/Details/1698257?pid=459633&last24only=True https://mecksheriffweb.mecklenburgcountync.gov/Arrest/Detail... Rock City, SC resident. Reason for arrest: FAIL TO DISPERSE ON COMMAND
  - leereeves 10y ago
    Good info, thanks. Now what about the people starting fires and assaulting people?
  - undersuit 10y ago
    In fact it's not 70% out of town but more like 70% Charlotte residents and 30% surrounding areas. The citizens of Charlotte and the surrounding areas are the rioters violent or not. >“I didn’t quote facts,” Todd Walther, spokesman for the Charlotte/Mecklenburg Fraternal Order of Police told the Observer on Friday.[1] I think it's important that this fact is known. The Union Official who does not represent the Charlotte Police Department is trying to frame it as Charlotte versus the outside agitators. [1] http://fair.org/home/far-right-runs-with-outside-agitator-lie-spread-by-cnn/ http://fair.org/home/far-right-runs-with-outside-agitator-li...
- serge2k 10y ago
  What does this have to do with the article?
  - leereeves 10y ago
    Just pointing out that there is hate on both sides, and while Hillary and her supporters are quick to condemn 25% of the country as "deplorable white-supremacists", she has nothing to say about things like this: > Keith Lamont Scott’s Brother Calls All White People ‘Devils’ http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/keith-lamont-scotts-brother-white-people-devils-video-watch-charlotte-riots-facebook-live-brentley-vinson-black-lives-matter/ http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/keith-lamont-scotts-brother-wh... Or this: http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/charlotte-riots-video-white-man-beaten-attacked-parking-garage-shooting-facebook-you-tube-epicentre/ http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/charlotte-riots-video-white-ma...
    - sctb 10y ago
      Please don't lob drive-by inflammatory comments into discussion threads on Hacker News, it ruins them for everyone.
      - leereeves 10y ago
        I think it's relevant given that the subject of this post was people boycotting someone for supporting Trump. Not that I think Trump is a good person, but it's worth remembering the double standards that allow the left to feel morally superior even as they act "deplorably".
will_doz 10y ago
It boggles my mind that people think this is okay, but when a business that doesn't agree with gay marriage and won't bake a cake, it needs government intervention (as long as they don't refuse a gay person from purchasing any cake, it should be well within their rights). These developers are using bullying tactics to try to punish the Oculus developer for merely having an opinion. It only makes me want to vote for Trump even more. It's pretty hypocritical to attempt to stop what you think is bigotry and exclusion by doing the exact same thing to the people you don't like. With this line of thinking, our world will never change. We are better than this.
- ultra12 10y ago
  I'm sorry, but I disagree. If someone refuses to bake a cake for gay people, I agree that is well within their rights. It is also my right to not buy a cake from them. This is not a bullying tactic, this is people exercising the same freedoms that Palmer is by having and supporting his views.
  - bhhaskin 10y ago
    People quickly forget that Palmer is a private citizen. He is free to have what ever political views he wants. I could some what understand if it was Oculus, but it is not. Oculus has nothing to do with Palmers political views.
    - deanCommie 10y ago
      CEOs/Founders of multi-billion dollar companies are more than private citizens. They are visionaries and metaphors for their vision. People associate the entire company with the idea of the person. Not always, but certainly in many cases. For the longest time, and especially before the Facebook acquisition in the minds of most people, Oculus == Palmer, and part of the incredible appeal of Oculus was that it wasn't the product of a multinational conglomerate but felt like it came out of some dude's backyard. When people support a kickstarter/home-grown project they are supporting more than the idea - they are supporting the person behind the idea as well. So you better believe that the political views of such people have an impact on the perception and success of their companies.
flipcoder 10y ago
Why limit who you do business with based on who agrees with you politically? That will probably hurt you more than it does anyone else.
serge2k 10y ago
> While everyone has a right to express his or her political opinion We'll just try to blackmail your company into stifling political thought. On the other hand, who would want to work with a company lead by a racist? > "I absolutely support him doing whatever he wants politically if it's legal. To take any other position is against American values." Also disagree with this. Refusing to work with someone because of their politics may be a nasty thing to do, but it's equally valid speech. All that said, i don't know if Palmer Lucky is a racist. I do think he's a young man with a high profile and based on things that have happened I think he should probably have someone working with him to help maintain a more professional online presence. His GF is a trump supporter. Maybe he is too. So is Thiel. I think less of them all because of it, but ultimately who they are politically isn't a big deal to me. I just question what good Luckey thinks can come of funding "shitposters". Throwing a fundraiser, starting a super pac, endorsing trump, etc... those are all pretty standard political process things. This just seems ridiculous. I'd also be especially careful given what happened to Eich. Yes, he gave money to a cause many view as oppressive (me included). Don't really see a big difference between that and Trump at this point.
- MaysonL 10y ago
  +1 for sentiment, upvoted. -1 for spelling (led is the past tense of lead). Not downvoted.
douche 10y ago
This liberal McCarthyism is getting a little scary. Can't we just make cool shit and check the politics at the door?
- xj9 10y ago
  If only. I'm sure we'll get there eventually, the question is if we'll live to see it.
poshli 10y ago
I wonder why FB didn't pull Luckey aside at company purchase time and say "ok you're worth a LOT of money now, time to delete the reddit account."
- adamrezich 10y ago
  I wonder if this whole debacle is just FB throwing Luckey under the bus.
marcoperaza 10y ago
The guy didn't even accomplish anything. He tried to solicit donations and involvement from Trump supporters online and they quickly told him to beat feet. In their own words, "memes are not for sale" because "meme magic is real". Meanwhile, the NYTimes has a story about Hillary's real, operational, online propaganda machine: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/23/us/politics/hillary-clinton-media-david-brock.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/23/us/politics/hillary-clinto... I can't help but wonder if the Nimble America story is being pushed to bury this.
PostOnce 10y ago
At this point, I don't think any of this matters for the viability of Oculus (regardless of these being small devs anyway, it's not like their games make or break the platform, even in aggregate). It's dead, and here's why: Facebook wants "regular people" to "hang out with each other" in VR. Facebook wants to own the movie theater, the mall, the billboards, the radio, and everything else, all at once, without having to buy real estate, so they can own 100% of global advertising, on the VR globe anyway. But regular people can't afford Facebook VR. Regular people make <$20,000/year (40% of American workers earn under 20k, and 45mil are on food stamps). A hard plastic VR phone case with decent lenses is $10 and it's pretty damn convincing for that price. The next cheapest VR is PS4, which is ~$700 all up, console and headset. Sony has a known name in the gaming space, a reputation for quality, and is the #1 console maker. People will buy this. And then you have the PC VR, whether oculus or vive, $600-800 for the headset alone, and then over $1000 for a PC (because most people don't have a PC they can just plug a headset into, nor a PSU allowing them to just upgrade their GPU, etc, it requires a new unit for most.) -- and no killer apps. So where are the devs going to go? Playstation has advanced graphics AND is difficult or impossible to pirate. Mobile has obscene penetration and people who don't play games and don't want to invest in gaming hardware have the ability to engage here. I don't see Oculus having a good end regardless of decisions it can make.

35 points by davidgerard 10y ago

Rioters are burning down Charlotte, Hillary hasn't said a thing (except to doubt the police), but Donald Trump is the problem? > "I'm not saying all the people, but we've got the instigators that are coming in from the outside. They were coming in on buses from out of state. If you go back and look at some of the arrests that were made last night. I can about say probably 70% of those had out-of-state IDs. They're not coming from Charlotte." http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/23/charlotte_police_70_of_rioters_arrested_had_out_of_state_ids.html http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/23/charlotte_... Someone should find out who paid for those buses.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
undersuit 10y ago
Criminals I tell you. /s For all those that don't know about the geography of Charlotte, NC the city exists along the North Carolina/South Carolina border. https://mecksheriffweb.mecklenburgcountync.gov/Arrest/Details/1698257?pid=459633&last24only=True https://mecksheriffweb.mecklenburgcountync.gov/Arrest/Detail... Rock City, SC resident. Reason for arrest: FAIL TO DISPERSE ON COMMAND
- leereeves 10y ago
  Good info, thanks. Now what about the people starting fires and assaulting people?
- undersuit 10y ago
  In fact it's not 70% out of town but more like 70% Charlotte residents and 30% surrounding areas. The citizens of Charlotte and the surrounding areas are the rioters violent or not. >“I didn’t quote facts,” Todd Walther, spokesman for the Charlotte/Mecklenburg Fraternal Order of Police told the Observer on Friday.[1] I think it's important that this fact is known. The Union Official who does not represent the Charlotte Police Department is trying to frame it as Charlotte versus the outside agitators. [1] http://fair.org/home/far-right-runs-with-outside-agitator-lie-spread-by-cnn/ http://fair.org/home/far-right-runs-with-outside-agitator-li...
serge2k 10y ago
What does this have to do with the article?
- leereeves 10y ago
  Just pointing out that there is hate on both sides, and while Hillary and her supporters are quick to condemn 25% of the country as "deplorable white-supremacists", she has nothing to say about things like this: > Keith Lamont Scott’s Brother Calls All White People ‘Devils’ http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/keith-lamont-scotts-brother-white-people-devils-video-watch-charlotte-riots-facebook-live-brentley-vinson-black-lives-matter/ http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/keith-lamont-scotts-brother-wh... Or this: http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/charlotte-riots-video-white-man-beaten-attacked-parking-garage-shooting-facebook-you-tube-epicentre/ http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/charlotte-riots-video-white-ma...
  - sctb 10y ago
    Please don't lob drive-by inflammatory comments into discussion threads on Hacker News, it ruins them for everyone.
    - leereeves 10y ago
      I think it's relevant given that the subject of this post was people boycotting someone for supporting Trump. Not that I think Trump is a good person, but it's worth remembering the double standards that allow the left to feel morally superior even as they act "deplorably".

will_doz 10y ago

It boggles my mind that people think this is okay, but when a business that doesn't agree with gay marriage and won't bake a cake, it needs government intervention (as long as they don't refuse a gay person from purchasing any cake, it should be well within their rights). These developers are using bullying tactics to try to punish the Oculus developer for merely having an opinion. It only makes me want to vote for Trump even more. It's pretty hypocritical to attempt to stop what you think is bigotry and exclusion by doing the exact same thing to the people you don't like. With this line of thinking, our world will never change. We are better than this.

ultra12 10y ago
I'm sorry, but I disagree. If someone refuses to bake a cake for gay people, I agree that is well within their rights. It is also my right to not buy a cake from them. This is not a bullying tactic, this is people exercising the same freedoms that Palmer is by having and supporting his views.
- bhhaskin 10y ago
  People quickly forget that Palmer is a private citizen. He is free to have what ever political views he wants. I could some what understand if it was Oculus, but it is not. Oculus has nothing to do with Palmers political views.
  - deanCommie 10y ago
    CEOs/Founders of multi-billion dollar companies are more than private citizens. They are visionaries and metaphors for their vision. People associate the entire company with the idea of the person. Not always, but certainly in many cases. For the longest time, and especially before the Facebook acquisition in the minds of most people, Oculus == Palmer, and part of the incredible appeal of Oculus was that it wasn't the product of a multinational conglomerate but felt like it came out of some dude's backyard. When people support a kickstarter/home-grown project they are supporting more than the idea - they are supporting the person behind the idea as well. So you better believe that the political views of such people have an impact on the perception and success of their companies.

flipcoder 10y ago

Why limit who you do business with based on who agrees with you politically? That will probably hurt you more than it does anyone else.

serge2k 10y ago

> While everyone has a right to express his or her political opinion We'll just try to blackmail your company into stifling political thought. On the other hand, who would want to work with a company lead by a racist? > "I absolutely support him doing whatever he wants politically if it's legal. To take any other position is against American values." Also disagree with this. Refusing to work with someone because of their politics may be a nasty thing to do, but it's equally valid speech. All that said, i don't know if Palmer Lucky is a racist. I do think he's a young man with a high profile and based on things that have happened I think he should probably have someone working with him to help maintain a more professional online presence. His GF is a trump supporter. Maybe he is too. So is Thiel. I think less of them all because of it, but ultimately who they are politically isn't a big deal to me. I just question what good Luckey thinks can come of funding "shitposters". Throwing a fundraiser, starting a super pac, endorsing trump, etc... those are all pretty standard political process things. This just seems ridiculous. I'd also be especially careful given what happened to Eich. Yes, he gave money to a cause many view as oppressive (me included). Don't really see a big difference between that and Trump at this point.

MaysonL 10y ago
+1 for sentiment, upvoted. -1 for spelling (led is the past tense of lead). Not downvoted.

douche 10y ago

This liberal McCarthyism is getting a little scary. Can't we just make cool shit and check the politics at the door?

xj9 10y ago
If only. I'm sure we'll get there eventually, the question is if we'll live to see it.

poshli 10y ago

I wonder why FB didn't pull Luckey aside at company purchase time and say "ok you're worth a LOT of money now, time to delete the reddit account."

adamrezich 10y ago
I wonder if this whole debacle is just FB throwing Luckey under the bus.

marcoperaza 10y ago

The guy didn't even accomplish anything. He tried to solicit donations and involvement from Trump supporters online and they quickly told him to beat feet. In their own words, "memes are not for sale" because "meme magic is real". Meanwhile, the NYTimes has a story about Hillary's real, operational, online propaganda machine: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/23/us/politics/hillary-clinton-media-david-brock.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/23/us/politics/hillary-clinto... I can't help but wonder if the Nimble America story is being pushed to bury this.

PostOnce 10y ago

At this point, I don't think any of this matters for the viability of Oculus (regardless of these being small devs anyway, it's not like their games make or break the platform, even in aggregate). It's dead, and here's why: Facebook wants "regular people" to "hang out with each other" in VR. Facebook wants to own the movie theater, the mall, the billboards, the radio, and everything else, all at once, without having to buy real estate, so they can own 100% of global advertising, on the VR globe anyway. But regular people can't afford Facebook VR. Regular people make <$20,000/year (40% of American workers earn under 20k, and 45mil are on food stamps). A hard plastic VR phone case with decent lenses is $10 and it's pretty damn convincing for that price. The next cheapest VR is PS4, which is ~$700 all up, console and headset. Sony has a known name in the gaming space, a reputation for quality, and is the #1 console maker. People will buy this. And then you have the PC VR, whether oculus or vive, $600-800 for the headset alone, and then over $1000 for a PC (because most people don't have a PC they can just plug a headset into, nor a PSU allowing them to just upgrade their GPU, etc, it requires a new unit for most.) -- and no killer apps. So where are the devs going to go? Playstation has advanced graphics AND is difficult or impossible to pirate. Mobile has obscene penetration and people who don't play games and don't want to invest in gaming hardware have the ability to engage here. I don't see Oculus having a good end regardless of decisions it can make.