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Sorry about that. I guess my strong reaction came from a deep dislike of the concept of "integration" in this context. To me, "integration" means "to achieve s

Sorry about that. I guess my strong reaction came from a deep dislike of the concept of "integration" in this context. To me, "integration" means "to achieve sameness", so perhaps I should briefly explain how mainland China and Hong Kong differs. Apart from the differences in the political, economic and legal systems, culturally Hong Kong is very different from northern China; from the languages we speak, the script we write, to the food we eat, but more importantly, in our different worldviews and different thoughts on how the entire society should be run, like how business relationships should be maintained, how kids should be raised, how success is defined, who should we look up to, and so on. It's not completely different, but different enough to be distinctive. Which brings us to today. Most primary schools now teach in a non-native tongue. Kickbacks are almost expected in deals because "that's China and we're in China". Infrastructure projects for "integration" are abnormally costly and got to go ahead with doctored projection data to justify them. We must "go north" and look for opportunities in mainland China, the government says -- what happened to the rest of the world? And then there are 150 new settlers from mainland China every single day, 7 days a week 365 days a year, and our government have no say in who gets to come.

hangonhn 10y ago
Come on. "Most primary schools now teach in a non-native tongue" They used to teach English in HK schools. At least Mandarin is in the same language family as Cantonese. As someone who used to live in HK and then left before '97, "cultural genocide" sounds like a hyperbole to me. HK and China has much more in common than they differ. HK and Guangzhou are exceptionally similar in culture and speak the exact same dialect. In fact, many people in HK have relatives there. Lastly, having left HK and seen the rest of the world, I want to ask "what culture?" Nearly all of HK culture is imported and cheap copies of other cultures such as China, UK, and Japan. I can be onboard with opposing the political changes but culture is a stretch for HK. HK's culture is skin deep and very insular.
- bsznjyewgd 10y ago
  I'm not sure if you're missing the point. Yes, secondary schools used to teach in Chinese and English (more of the former if you chose a Chinese school, more of the latter if you chose an English one), but the Chinese used to be Cantonese. Now they're teaching even primary schools in Mandarin. The lingua franca is Cantonese, and Mandarin is a foreign language. Obviously, this is problematic. When I was going through the school system, Mandarin instruction (as a separate class, not as a language of instruction) didn't even start until fourth grade. Can you imagine starting your first day of grade one and your teacher starts speaking gibberish to you? That's ridiculous.
  - hangonhn 10y ago
    No I wasn't missing a point;I was missing an entire data set! I didn't know they moved that down to primary school! I knew they switched from English to Mandarin but I didn't realize they pushed it down to grade one. I am obviously wrong on that point. Thanks for the info.
    - bsznjyewgd 10y ago
      Actually, I think I implied more than what I meant to say. While they are now pushing the use of Mandarin as a language of instruction (and pushing it further down the age group), I'm not so sure they are starting at grade one (I'm now part of the diaspora myself, but this is in the Cantonese news once in a while). That was just me wondering to myself the absurdity of being taught in a language that I would've barely heard of at that point in life.
      - spacehunt 10y ago
        http://news.mingpao.com/pns/dailynews/web_tc/article/20160212/s00002/1455213807502 http://news.mingpao.com/pns/dailynews/web_tc/article/2016021... Of the 80 schools sampled, 36 teach Chinese in Cantonese in all classes, 22 teach in Putonghua in all classes, 9 teach in Putonghua in all classes of some grades, and the rest have a mix of both.
- spacehunt 10y ago
  > They used to teach English in HK schools. Cantonese was used to teach Chinese if not other subjects in schools. I'm talking about the switch of the medium of instruction from either English or Cantonese to Putonghua. There are even not-so-subtle "not knowing Putonghua" = "treats customers bad" stuff appearing in textbooks. > HK and Guangzhou are exceptionally similar in culture I totally agree, but note I said northern China. Guangzhou is facing the same problem to a much larger degree, unfortunately people there have mostly given up. > Lastly, having left HK and seen the rest of the world, I want to ask "what culture?" Nearly all of HK culture is imported and cheap copies of other cultures such as China, UK, and Japan. Looks like I have a slightly broader definition of "culture" than yours. Would you say Aussie culture is a cheap copy of America's, for example?
  - hangonhn 10y ago
    My apologies. Someone later on in the thread gave me an update on the educational language changes and it is indeed absurd. That said, as a member of the HK diaspora, whenever someone complains about culture it often ends up being a nativist argument against immigrants. To hear someone from HK bring that up, especially against a population we are similar to, is a bit hard to take.
    - spacehunt 10y ago
      No need to apologise -- as my parents are still overseas I totally understand, how things are happening far more quickly (and in a more absurd direction) than overseas HKers ever imagine. That said, I don't have anything against mainland Chinese people -- I have worked with them, became friends with them. Yet, it is through extensive interactions with them that have made me realise how different we are, not just in languages or food but in how we think. That's the essence of what we are trying to preserve, and what the PRC is trying to eradicate.
- rifung 10y ago
  > Lastly, having left HK and seen the rest of the world, I want to ask "what culture?" Nearly all of HK culture is imported and cheap copies of other cultures such as China, UK, and Japan. Regardless of whether I agree with you or not, this is a rather offensive thing to say no? If people think their culture is unique or at least different, who are we to say otherwise?
  - hangonhn 10y ago
    Yes you're absolutely right. The wording was terrible because I was caught up in the emotions and didn't think carefully about it. What I really should have said is that HK culture inherits and imports from a few other cultures and thus HK culture has always changed with its history.

hangonhn 10y ago

Come on. "Most primary schools now teach in a non-native tongue" They used to teach English in HK schools. At least Mandarin is in the same language family as Cantonese. As someone who used to live in HK and then left before '97, "cultural genocide" sounds like a hyperbole to me. HK and China has much more in common than they differ. HK and Guangzhou are exceptionally similar in culture and speak the exact same dialect. In fact, many people in HK have relatives there. Lastly, having left HK and seen the rest of the world, I want to ask "what culture?" Nearly all of HK culture is imported and cheap copies of other cultures such as China, UK, and Japan. I can be onboard with opposing the political changes but culture is a stretch for HK. HK's culture is skin deep and very insular.

bsznjyewgd 10y ago
I'm not sure if you're missing the point. Yes, secondary schools used to teach in Chinese and English (more of the former if you chose a Chinese school, more of the latter if you chose an English one), but the Chinese used to be Cantonese. Now they're teaching even primary schools in Mandarin. The lingua franca is Cantonese, and Mandarin is a foreign language. Obviously, this is problematic. When I was going through the school system, Mandarin instruction (as a separate class, not as a language of instruction) didn't even start until fourth grade. Can you imagine starting your first day of grade one and your teacher starts speaking gibberish to you? That's ridiculous.
- hangonhn 10y ago
  No I wasn't missing a point;I was missing an entire data set! I didn't know they moved that down to primary school! I knew they switched from English to Mandarin but I didn't realize they pushed it down to grade one. I am obviously wrong on that point. Thanks for the info.
  - bsznjyewgd 10y ago
    Actually, I think I implied more than what I meant to say. While they are now pushing the use of Mandarin as a language of instruction (and pushing it further down the age group), I'm not so sure they are starting at grade one (I'm now part of the diaspora myself, but this is in the Cantonese news once in a while). That was just me wondering to myself the absurdity of being taught in a language that I would've barely heard of at that point in life.
    - spacehunt 10y ago
      http://news.mingpao.com/pns/dailynews/web_tc/article/20160212/s00002/1455213807502 http://news.mingpao.com/pns/dailynews/web_tc/article/2016021... Of the 80 schools sampled, 36 teach Chinese in Cantonese in all classes, 22 teach in Putonghua in all classes, 9 teach in Putonghua in all classes of some grades, and the rest have a mix of both.
spacehunt 10y ago
> They used to teach English in HK schools. Cantonese was used to teach Chinese if not other subjects in schools. I'm talking about the switch of the medium of instruction from either English or Cantonese to Putonghua. There are even not-so-subtle "not knowing Putonghua" = "treats customers bad" stuff appearing in textbooks. > HK and Guangzhou are exceptionally similar in culture I totally agree, but note I said northern China. Guangzhou is facing the same problem to a much larger degree, unfortunately people there have mostly given up. > Lastly, having left HK and seen the rest of the world, I want to ask "what culture?" Nearly all of HK culture is imported and cheap copies of other cultures such as China, UK, and Japan. Looks like I have a slightly broader definition of "culture" than yours. Would you say Aussie culture is a cheap copy of America's, for example?
- hangonhn 10y ago
  My apologies. Someone later on in the thread gave me an update on the educational language changes and it is indeed absurd. That said, as a member of the HK diaspora, whenever someone complains about culture it often ends up being a nativist argument against immigrants. To hear someone from HK bring that up, especially against a population we are similar to, is a bit hard to take.
  - spacehunt 10y ago
    No need to apologise -- as my parents are still overseas I totally understand, how things are happening far more quickly (and in a more absurd direction) than overseas HKers ever imagine. That said, I don't have anything against mainland Chinese people -- I have worked with them, became friends with them. Yet, it is through extensive interactions with them that have made me realise how different we are, not just in languages or food but in how we think. That's the essence of what we are trying to preserve, and what the PRC is trying to eradicate.
rifung 10y ago
> Lastly, having left HK and seen the rest of the world, I want to ask "what culture?" Nearly all of HK culture is imported and cheap copies of other cultures such as China, UK, and Japan. Regardless of whether I agree with you or not, this is a rather offensive thing to say no? If people think their culture is unique or at least different, who are we to say otherwise?
- hangonhn 10y ago
  Yes you're absolutely right. The wording was terrible because I was caught up in the emotions and didn't think carefully about it. What I really should have said is that HK culture inherits and imports from a few other cultures and thus HK culture has always changed with its history.