5 ms·

It's a general-purpose OS. Do whatever you normally do on it. More importantly, it's a learning tool. It's been part of many courses and many rounds of Google

by TkTech 10y ago

It's a general-purpose OS. Do whatever you normally do on it. More importantly, it's a learning tool. It's been part of many courses and many rounds of Google Summer of Code. It's an embeddable kernel + OS free of the cancerous GPL, under a permissive MIT licence. It is extremely well documented, well tested, and consistent. Writing drivers for it is very simple. This makes it interesting for education, for-profit development, embedded applications, etc... It's also just fun. There is a very active forum[1], wiki[2], and community[3] that has been spiting out hobby OSs for a decade. The kernel originally used in Haiku is from NewOS, a project by Travis Geiselbrecht that was also just a hobby project. [1]: http://forum.osdev.org/ http://forum.osdev.org/ [2]: http://wiki.osdev.org/ http://wiki.osdev.org/ [3]: irc://chat.freenode.net:6667/#osdev

freehunter 10y ago
>Do whatever you normally do on it. What I normally do involves a lot of software that does not run on Haiku. Is there a Citrix receiver for it? Does Cisco make an AnyConnect client? What about LibreOffice? Java? Flash? I love the idea of Haiku, don't get me wrong. But the question of "what can I do with it" is not answered by "whatever you normally do", especially if (considering your second paragraph) what I normally do does not entail writing device drivers. An OS means nothing without compatible software. Ask anyone who uses Windows Phone.
- TkTech 10y ago
  There may be particular cases that don't work for you. Just like how up the gaming experience on OS X is still garbage after a decade. - Citrix = https://wiki.winehq.org/Haiku https://wiki.winehq.org/Haiku + https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=3718 https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=applicatio... [GOLD] - AnyConnect = OpenConnect - LibreOffice = This is a good one, there is a port but the general community does not favour porting it because it clashes pretty hard against the BeOS ethos. I would just use google docs. I do almost all my editing including ppts in vim. - In 5 years I haven't found a need for Java. In the one case it would have been useful for RE work I just wrote a python library to do it instead [https://github.com/tktech/Jawa https://github.com/tktech/Jawa] - Same with flash. Haven't run into anything that needed flash in years. Having apps/suites that only work in one particular environment and aren't available on yours are nothing new. Hasn't stopped the continued development of OS X or Linux that eventually results in ports or alternatives.
  - Razengan 10y ago
    > the gaming experience on OS X is still garbage after a decade. My main use for PCs for almost 2 decades was gaming, and after switching to Macs a few years ago, I can't say I miss much, honestly. Unless you're complaining about the cost of a Mac, almost every new game has a Mac version on release or soon after launch, and even if it doesn't, CrossOver [1] or another VM will let you play it without having to boot into Windows. Metal is also proving to be good for native games. [2] [1] https://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover-mac https://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover-mac [2] http://www.cio.com/article/3097642/os-x/macos-metal-api-makes-a-big-difference-in-world-of-warcraft.html http://www.cio.com/article/3097642/os-x/macos-metal-api-make...
mintplant 10y ago
> free of the cancerous GPL, under a permissive MIT licence Is this attitude common in the Haiku community? I was interested in checking it out but seeing this sort of rhetoric is discouraging.
- johncolanduoni 10y ago
  I guess a better way to start a conversation would be to point at all the effort and argumentation wasted over where the line between GPLed kernel modules and non-GPLed kernel modules is in the Linux kernel, as well as runtime disadvantages in some cases. The efforts to get ZFS encryption on Linux are a good recent example of this problem: they had to port the in-kernel crypto implementation from Illumnos (basically OpenSolaris) even though the Linux kernel has a perfectly good implementation of AES-GCM that would've worked without bloating the kernel modules. Add to that the resistance to forming stable ABIs (and sometime APIs) in part to push everyone to not only license any kernel module as GPL, but to also commit it to the one true kernel sources, and I think there's at least a discussion worth having. But definitely not one to be started with "cancerous GPL".
- TkTech 10y ago
  That's just reality. In general the GPL is perceived extremely negatively. Almost every company I've worked for has had strict audits to ensure nothing we do or even previously worked on has touched anything potentially GPL. If you're writing software for fun, enjoy seeing it being used, and still want attribution you licence it under the MIT or BSD, not the GPL. Many people get polarized on the topic and there are many discussion on stackoverflow and around where people seek or design MIT-like, GPL-incompatible licence specifically. Likewise, the GPL has its own cult following. Regardless of personal opinions, few if any commercial entities willing want to work with the GPL.
  - cosarara97 10y ago
    The linux kernel proves you wrong.
    - 10y ago
pitay 10y ago
Just because you don't like a licenses obligations does not make the license cancerous. People that call it cancerous are doing that only because they want to get peoples work and do not want to give back any work they do on the GPL'd software or the software that uses the GPL'd code. The agency I used to work at didn't mind using GPL'd software at all, because with one or two exceptions the agency did not distribute software at all. The AGPL was different matter though, so we just didn't use software licensed under AGPL. I am not complaining that software uses the AGPL license, it's all the better for software developers to license it the way they want, there's no point in whining about it. I would tend to license software under the GPL just so that any improvements made to it go back to the community.
- x1798DE 10y ago
  > Just because you don't like a licenses obligations does not make the license cancerous. Considering that I often hear GPL (and other copyleft licenses) described by its proponents as a virus, I don't think the disease metaphor is out of the question. The whole idea is that to maintain license compatibility in derivative works you need to propagate the license. I don't feel strongly about copyleft, though I generally don't use it for my own works.

by TkTech 10y ago

freehunter 10y ago

>Do whatever you normally do on it. What I normally do involves a lot of software that does not run on Haiku. Is there a Citrix receiver for it? Does Cisco make an AnyConnect client? What about LibreOffice? Java? Flash? I love the idea of Haiku, don't get me wrong. But the question of "what can I do with it" is not answered by "whatever you normally do", especially if (considering your second paragraph) what I normally do does not entail writing device drivers. An OS means nothing without compatible software. Ask anyone who uses Windows Phone.

TkTech 10y ago
There may be particular cases that don't work for you. Just like how up the gaming experience on OS X is still garbage after a decade. - Citrix = https://wiki.winehq.org/Haiku https://wiki.winehq.org/Haiku + https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=3718 https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=applicatio... [GOLD] - AnyConnect = OpenConnect - LibreOffice = This is a good one, there is a port but the general community does not favour porting it because it clashes pretty hard against the BeOS ethos. I would just use google docs. I do almost all my editing including ppts in vim. - In 5 years I haven't found a need for Java. In the one case it would have been useful for RE work I just wrote a python library to do it instead [https://github.com/tktech/Jawa https://github.com/tktech/Jawa] - Same with flash. Haven't run into anything that needed flash in years. Having apps/suites that only work in one particular environment and aren't available on yours are nothing new. Hasn't stopped the continued development of OS X or Linux that eventually results in ports or alternatives.
- Razengan 10y ago
  > the gaming experience on OS X is still garbage after a decade. My main use for PCs for almost 2 decades was gaming, and after switching to Macs a few years ago, I can't say I miss much, honestly. Unless you're complaining about the cost of a Mac, almost every new game has a Mac version on release or soon after launch, and even if it doesn't, CrossOver [1] or another VM will let you play it without having to boot into Windows. Metal is also proving to be good for native games. [2] [1] https://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover-mac https://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover-mac [2] http://www.cio.com/article/3097642/os-x/macos-metal-api-makes-a-big-difference-in-world-of-warcraft.html http://www.cio.com/article/3097642/os-x/macos-metal-api-make...

mintplant 10y ago

> free of the cancerous GPL, under a permissive MIT licence Is this attitude common in the Haiku community? I was interested in checking it out but seeing this sort of rhetoric is discouraging.

johncolanduoni 10y ago
I guess a better way to start a conversation would be to point at all the effort and argumentation wasted over where the line between GPLed kernel modules and non-GPLed kernel modules is in the Linux kernel, as well as runtime disadvantages in some cases. The efforts to get ZFS encryption on Linux are a good recent example of this problem: they had to port the in-kernel crypto implementation from Illumnos (basically OpenSolaris) even though the Linux kernel has a perfectly good implementation of AES-GCM that would've worked without bloating the kernel modules. Add to that the resistance to forming stable ABIs (and sometime APIs) in part to push everyone to not only license any kernel module as GPL, but to also commit it to the one true kernel sources, and I think there's at least a discussion worth having. But definitely not one to be started with "cancerous GPL".
TkTech 10y ago
That's just reality. In general the GPL is perceived extremely negatively. Almost every company I've worked for has had strict audits to ensure nothing we do or even previously worked on has touched anything potentially GPL. If you're writing software for fun, enjoy seeing it being used, and still want attribution you licence it under the MIT or BSD, not the GPL. Many people get polarized on the topic and there are many discussion on stackoverflow and around where people seek or design MIT-like, GPL-incompatible licence specifically. Likewise, the GPL has its own cult following. Regardless of personal opinions, few if any commercial entities willing want to work with the GPL.
- cosarara97 10y ago
  The linux kernel proves you wrong.
  - 10y ago

pitay 10y ago

Just because you don't like a licenses obligations does not make the license cancerous. People that call it cancerous are doing that only because they want to get peoples work and do not want to give back any work they do on the GPL'd software or the software that uses the GPL'd code. The agency I used to work at didn't mind using GPL'd software at all, because with one or two exceptions the agency did not distribute software at all. The AGPL was different matter though, so we just didn't use software licensed under AGPL. I am not complaining that software uses the AGPL license, it's all the better for software developers to license it the way they want, there's no point in whining about it. I would tend to license software under the GPL just so that any improvements made to it go back to the community.

x1798DE 10y ago
> Just because you don't like a licenses obligations does not make the license cancerous. Considering that I often hear GPL (and other copyleft licenses) described by its proponents as a virus, I don't think the disease metaphor is out of the question. The whole idea is that to maintain license compatibility in derivative works you need to propagate the license. I don't feel strongly about copyleft, though I generally don't use it for my own works.