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From the article: > Last year, Christina Quasney was close to giving up. A biochemistry major at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, Quasney's backgro

From the article: > Last year, Christina Quasney was close to giving up. A biochemistry major at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, Quasney's background was anything but privileged. People with little family money get free grants and low-interest government backed loans to attend college. She is attending a public university. In NYC, there are many students that are attending City University of New York and I meet some. They are studying biology, engineering, and other sciences. They generally but not always live at home. The annual tuition and fees are less than $7000 and for transportation, the MTA subway/bus is $115 per month, unlimited rides. Students like those mentioned in the article get Pell Grants and Stafford government backed low-interest loans. Pell Grants are $5,800 per year. Stafford Loans are 5,500 the first year, 6,500 the second year, and $7,500 for the remaining years. In my particular case, I paid for 90% of tuition/housing/living expenses by programming computers beginning in high school. I was not eligible for Pell Grants nor any form of loans including Stafford Loans. So, I really don't understand these arguments. Public universities provide a first class low-cost undergraduate education and of course have PhD programs and so on. Once one has an undergraduate degree with good grades, in the sciences and engineering, if they are admitted to a PhD program so they are fully funded for both tuition and housing. CUNY Tuition and Fees: http://www2.cuny.edu/financial-aid/tuition-and-college-costs/tuition-fees/#1452179204200-d27abe14-99f4 http://www2.cuny.edu/financial-aid/tuition-and-college-costs... Pell Grants: https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/about/announcements/pell-2016-17 https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/about/announcements/pell-2016-1... Stafford Loans: https://www.scholarships.com/financial-aid/student-loans/stafford-loans/ https://www.scholarships.com/financial-aid/student-loans/sta...

nickpinkston 10y ago
The blindness of privilege: > I paid for 90% of tuition/housing/living expenses by programming computers beginning in high school. It's commendable that OP did this - that's great and plenty of people have squandered their gifts unlike him. However, just because funding is available doesn't mean people aren't at a disadvantage due to their situation. Does OP really believe that you're on equal ground if you: - Live in a ghetto, often with an stressed-out, overworked single Mom. - Go to a shit school without adequate fucking literacy education - let alone programming classes. - Have no family / friends who have professional jobs. - Often fear for your physical and financial safety. - You don't have a computer / internet at home. This breads a very difficult kind of scarcity to dig yourself out of, and we need programs to help these kids get out. Cash is great, but not sufficient.
- drakonandor 10y ago
  Does this article really concern people without 'adequate literacy'? They are not at a level they have to worry about university costs. (Of course, their schools should be improved)
- davidf18 10y ago
  While my HS did have a course in computer programming taught by a very good teacher, a computer scientist, I learned to program before then. These days one can purchase a Chromebook for about $200 to $300 and put Linux on that and program open source. I know someone who has a nice Mac, but actually I see him mostly with his 13" Chromebook programming C++ on Linux. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=chromebook https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3... Much of the issues mentioned are true of anyone that wants to go to college. But the article to me was about paying for college and ironically, the poor have more opportunities than the not so poor because of the Pell Grants and Stafford Loans. At any rate, in NYC, I see students who were immigrants from disadvantaged backgrounds getting a top education at CUNY (and there are other low-cost schools in NYC).
  - soundwave106 10y ago
    It's not just cash and computing devices we are talking about. It's home environment. Home environment is a huge factor on education success. My mother and sister both do some one on one tutoring of kindergarten age economically disadvantaged children. They've told me about the kids that come in that you can tell are very bright. But due to some of the factors like described in the previous post (eg the stressed out single mom who is always working and has less time to do things like reading with their kids etc., the less safe environment, or even just parents that for whatever reason don't know how to engage in that way), many times they still often come in significantly behind. Which makes sense. If your family actively engages their children in learning from the start, you're going to be better prepared. Is it possible to overcome that? Yes, but not by simply throwing a Chromebook at them. The good news for instance is that this type of volunteer-led tutoring seems to work very decently at closing some of the gap (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/can-volunteers-help-kids-read-more-proficiently-new-research-says-yes/2015/03/28/7141c57c-c4ec-11e4-ad5c-3b8ce89f1b89_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/can-volunteer...). So I think it's going to take more or less solutions in that direction.
plandis 10y ago
I didn't learn about FAFSA until I was already in my first year of college. Navigating how to apply and pay for college is difficult if nobody you know has done it before.
- davidf18 10y ago
  The colleges hire people to help with financial aid and they are supposed to speak with students before classes start because of application deadlines. I'm sorry that your college didn't help you as they should have.
davidf18 10y ago
My junior/senior high school charged no tuition -- just fees and books. Entrance was based on grades/test scores/personal interview. I did not grow up in NYC, but there are several free public high schools for gifted scientists and engineers to be including Stuyvesant High School and the Bronx School of Science. Entrance is based on merit. So, it is certainly possible to get a top rated education not coming from "privilege." Other communities offer Magnet Schools and more should be offering them. A huge systemic problem in this country is that we spend enormous sums of money for "special education" but very little for academically gifted children. That is a real problem. If one is concerned that children "without privilege" can get to be scientists and engineers and so on, then they should be solving a systems problem which is not enough public Magnet Schools for academically gifted children.
fu9ar 10y ago
You don't understand these arguments because you came from such an extreme place of class privilege that you already had the education in high school to get paid "programming" jobs. People coming from poverty don't have family that can make up the 10% that you didn't cover out of pocket. Even then, you are probably being disingenuous with that 90% figure and if you want it to stand as valid evidence that all of these dirty poors should just suck it up because, "BOOTSTRAPS!!!", you should share your financial records for the years that you were in college rather than throwing out a few general links. You created something that, at first glance, seems like a reasonable argument, but when exposed to a cursory examination, collapses under the weight of it's own bullshit. D-
- davidf18 10y ago
  > People coming from poverty don't have family that can make up the 10% that you didn't cover out of pocket They get almost $24K free money in 4 years of free money in Pell Grants They get about $27K in 4 years subsidized Stafford Loans People in poverty also get other kinds of grants/fellowships. The Nature article was about people from poorer backgrounds not being able to be Scientists. The truth is they receive plenty of money for college and as I pointed out there are many in NYC that are doing just that.
  - fu9ar 10y ago
    Did you know that one of the schools that I went to disbursed financial aid a week after tuition was due, meaning that many students were dropped from their classes and had to re-register at the last minute with a late registration "fee?" This is one example of a constant parade of such bullshit. You had a pile of money that you earned, but it was predicated on an exceptionally privileged childhood education and a stratospherically privileged after-school-job opportunity, plus whatever else you needed, plus the knowledge that you could take risks because your family had the means to catch you if you stumbled. Did you know that many schools subtract the value of any grants or fellowships from what students receive in Pell grants and Stafford loans? Winning scholarships can be a Pyrrhic victory, but clearly you know all about that, because you are someone who received Pell or Stafford loans and actually understands the policy arena surrounding higher education financial assistance. Oh wait, you don't know what you are talking about and are instead trying to feed the meritocratic delusion upon which your self esteem rests.

nickpinkston 10y ago

The blindness of privilege: > I paid for 90% of tuition/housing/living expenses by programming computers beginning in high school. It's commendable that OP did this - that's great and plenty of people have squandered their gifts unlike him. However, just because funding is available doesn't mean people aren't at a disadvantage due to their situation. Does OP really believe that you're on equal ground if you: - Live in a ghetto, often with an stressed-out, overworked single Mom. - Go to a shit school without adequate fucking literacy education - let alone programming classes. - Have no family / friends who have professional jobs. - Often fear for your physical and financial safety. - You don't have a computer / internet at home. This breads a very difficult kind of scarcity to dig yourself out of, and we need programs to help these kids get out. Cash is great, but not sufficient.

drakonandor 10y ago
Does this article really concern people without 'adequate literacy'? They are not at a level they have to worry about university costs. (Of course, their schools should be improved)
davidf18 10y ago
While my HS did have a course in computer programming taught by a very good teacher, a computer scientist, I learned to program before then. These days one can purchase a Chromebook for about $200 to $300 and put Linux on that and program open source. I know someone who has a nice Mac, but actually I see him mostly with his 13" Chromebook programming C++ on Linux. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=chromebook https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3... Much of the issues mentioned are true of anyone that wants to go to college. But the article to me was about paying for college and ironically, the poor have more opportunities than the not so poor because of the Pell Grants and Stafford Loans. At any rate, in NYC, I see students who were immigrants from disadvantaged backgrounds getting a top education at CUNY (and there are other low-cost schools in NYC).
- soundwave106 10y ago
  It's not just cash and computing devices we are talking about. It's home environment. Home environment is a huge factor on education success. My mother and sister both do some one on one tutoring of kindergarten age economically disadvantaged children. They've told me about the kids that come in that you can tell are very bright. But due to some of the factors like described in the previous post (eg the stressed out single mom who is always working and has less time to do things like reading with their kids etc., the less safe environment, or even just parents that for whatever reason don't know how to engage in that way), many times they still often come in significantly behind. Which makes sense. If your family actively engages their children in learning from the start, you're going to be better prepared. Is it possible to overcome that? Yes, but not by simply throwing a Chromebook at them. The good news for instance is that this type of volunteer-led tutoring seems to work very decently at closing some of the gap (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/can-volunteers-help-kids-read-more-proficiently-new-research-says-yes/2015/03/28/7141c57c-c4ec-11e4-ad5c-3b8ce89f1b89_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/can-volunteer...). So I think it's going to take more or less solutions in that direction.

plandis 10y ago

I didn't learn about FAFSA until I was already in my first year of college. Navigating how to apply and pay for college is difficult if nobody you know has done it before.

davidf18 10y ago
The colleges hire people to help with financial aid and they are supposed to speak with students before classes start because of application deadlines. I'm sorry that your college didn't help you as they should have.

davidf18 10y ago

My junior/senior high school charged no tuition -- just fees and books. Entrance was based on grades/test scores/personal interview. I did not grow up in NYC, but there are several free public high schools for gifted scientists and engineers to be including Stuyvesant High School and the Bronx School of Science. Entrance is based on merit. So, it is certainly possible to get a top rated education not coming from "privilege." Other communities offer Magnet Schools and more should be offering them. A huge systemic problem in this country is that we spend enormous sums of money for "special education" but very little for academically gifted children. That is a real problem. If one is concerned that children "without privilege" can get to be scientists and engineers and so on, then they should be solving a systems problem which is not enough public Magnet Schools for academically gifted children.

fu9ar 10y ago

You don't understand these arguments because you came from such an extreme place of class privilege that you already had the education in high school to get paid "programming" jobs. People coming from poverty don't have family that can make up the 10% that you didn't cover out of pocket. Even then, you are probably being disingenuous with that 90% figure and if you want it to stand as valid evidence that all of these dirty poors should just suck it up because, "BOOTSTRAPS!!!", you should share your financial records for the years that you were in college rather than throwing out a few general links. You created something that, at first glance, seems like a reasonable argument, but when exposed to a cursory examination, collapses under the weight of it's own bullshit. D-

davidf18 10y ago
> People coming from poverty don't have family that can make up the 10% that you didn't cover out of pocket They get almost $24K free money in 4 years of free money in Pell Grants They get about $27K in 4 years subsidized Stafford Loans People in poverty also get other kinds of grants/fellowships. The Nature article was about people from poorer backgrounds not being able to be Scientists. The truth is they receive plenty of money for college and as I pointed out there are many in NYC that are doing just that.
- fu9ar 10y ago
  Did you know that one of the schools that I went to disbursed financial aid a week after tuition was due, meaning that many students were dropped from their classes and had to re-register at the last minute with a late registration "fee?" This is one example of a constant parade of such bullshit. You had a pile of money that you earned, but it was predicated on an exceptionally privileged childhood education and a stratospherically privileged after-school-job opportunity, plus whatever else you needed, plus the knowledge that you could take risks because your family had the means to catch you if you stumbled. Did you know that many schools subtract the value of any grants or fellowships from what students receive in Pell grants and Stafford loans? Winning scholarships can be a Pyrrhic victory, but clearly you know all about that, because you are someone who received Pell or Stafford loans and actually understands the policy arena surrounding higher education financial assistance. Oh wait, you don't know what you are talking about and are instead trying to feed the meritocratic delusion upon which your self esteem rests.