4 ms·

Please explain that line of thinking. How does increased surveillance increase violence? If anything it gives law enforcement a heads up of where thier presenc

by sheraz 10y ago

Please explain that line of thinking. How does increased surveillance increase violence? If anything it gives law enforcement a heads up of where thier presence might be needed.

pjc50 10y ago
Increased confrontation causes violence. In particular, finding groups who are protesting against previous police violence and provoking them tends to incite violence.
krapp 10y ago
Police sometimes intend to incite violence at these events as a pretense to breaking up lawful protests. Especially when they are the ones being protested. edit - changed often to sometimes, since 'often' really isn't accurate. Lazy writing on my part.
- arca_vorago 10y ago
  Please dont forget that its not just the ones in riot gear either, often the black-block anarchists who start the destruction of property which gives the lea the excuse to kettle/arrest protestors are plain cloths police/contractors acting as agent provocateurs, who then fade into background or even pass through police lines right before the push. Crowsds are so easily manipulated, its a time old tactic.
  - daveguy 10y ago
    > often the black-block anarchists who start the destruction of property which gives the lea the excuse to kettle/arrest protestors are plain cloths police/contractors acting as agent provocateurs That sounds very conspiratorial. Is there any evidence for that claim?
    - DanBC 10y ago
      There was a scandal in the UK were undercover police officers went way too far in infiltrating groups, sometimes causing violent (against property) action to happen. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28123438 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28123438
    - nosuchthing 10y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO COINTELPRO (a portmanteau derived from COunter INTELligence PROgram) was a series of covert, and at times illegal, projects conducted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) aimed at surveilling, infiltrating, discrediting and disrupting domestic political organizations. There seems to be minimal oversight for employees of domestic law entities.
imagist 10y ago
In many cases, law enforcement presence is what causes the violence. Cops in the US are people with guns who have been trained that force is their only tool. The idea that cops will ever decrease violence is deeply misguided.
- sheraz 10y ago
  Frankly, your comments are ignorant and uninformed. Surely there are documented cases of abuse of police power, but it is not all of the time. In fact, those cases are a very small minority when compared to all citizen-police interactions. You are woefully misinformed if you think that police in the US are taught that violence is the only tool in their repertoire. And even more so that you would say that police presence is the cause of violence.
  - imagist 10y ago
    > You are woefully misinformed if you think that police in the US are taught that violence is the only tool in their repertoire. "There have been too many lives lost to police killings. Too many phone calls telling families that their loved ones, particularly young black men, won’t be coming home. But in most cases, it isn’t because individual police officers are consciously racist or think black lives don’t matter. It is because officers perform the way they are trained to perform."[1] "Officers are trained to shoot until the threat is no longer present."[2] Paul Waldman: Did you think what the officers did [in Powell's shooting] was appropriate? It seems pretty clear that that's standard operating procedure. Maria Haberfeld: Yes it is, absolutely. [3] > And even more so that you would say that police presence is the cause of violence. Could you explain to me how a person with a gun could ever decrease violence? [1] http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/ http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-g... [2] http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/19/ferguson-police-darren-wilson-training-michael-brown/14293979/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/19/ferguso... [3] http://prospect.org/article/expert-us-police-training-use-deadly-force-woefully-inadequate http://prospect.org/article/expert-us-police-training-use-de...
    - 10y ago

by sheraz 10y ago

Please explain that line of thinking. How does increased surveillance increase violence? If anything it gives law enforcement a heads up of where thier presence might be needed.

pjc50 10y ago

Increased confrontation causes violence. In particular, finding groups who are protesting against previous police violence and provoking them tends to incite violence.

krapp 10y ago

Police sometimes intend to incite violence at these events as a pretense to breaking up lawful protests. Especially when they are the ones being protested. edit - changed often to sometimes, since 'often' really isn't accurate. Lazy writing on my part.

arca_vorago 10y ago
Please dont forget that its not just the ones in riot gear either, often the black-block anarchists who start the destruction of property which gives the lea the excuse to kettle/arrest protestors are plain cloths police/contractors acting as agent provocateurs, who then fade into background or even pass through police lines right before the push. Crowsds are so easily manipulated, its a time old tactic.
- daveguy 10y ago
  > often the black-block anarchists who start the destruction of property which gives the lea the excuse to kettle/arrest protestors are plain cloths police/contractors acting as agent provocateurs That sounds very conspiratorial. Is there any evidence for that claim?
  - DanBC 10y ago
    There was a scandal in the UK were undercover police officers went way too far in infiltrating groups, sometimes causing violent (against property) action to happen. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28123438 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28123438
  - nosuchthing 10y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO COINTELPRO (a portmanteau derived from COunter INTELligence PROgram) was a series of covert, and at times illegal, projects conducted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) aimed at surveilling, infiltrating, discrediting and disrupting domestic political organizations. There seems to be minimal oversight for employees of domestic law entities.

imagist 10y ago

In many cases, law enforcement presence is what causes the violence. Cops in the US are people with guns who have been trained that force is their only tool. The idea that cops will ever decrease violence is deeply misguided.

sheraz 10y ago
Frankly, your comments are ignorant and uninformed. Surely there are documented cases of abuse of police power, but it is not all of the time. In fact, those cases are a very small minority when compared to all citizen-police interactions. You are woefully misinformed if you think that police in the US are taught that violence is the only tool in their repertoire. And even more so that you would say that police presence is the cause of violence.
- imagist 10y ago
  > You are woefully misinformed if you think that police in the US are taught that violence is the only tool in their repertoire. "There have been too many lives lost to police killings. Too many phone calls telling families that their loved ones, particularly young black men, won’t be coming home. But in most cases, it isn’t because individual police officers are consciously racist or think black lives don’t matter. It is because officers perform the way they are trained to perform."[1] "Officers are trained to shoot until the threat is no longer present."[2] Paul Waldman: Did you think what the officers did [in Powell's shooting] was appropriate? It seems pretty clear that that's standard operating procedure. Maria Haberfeld: Yes it is, absolutely. [3] > And even more so that you would say that police presence is the cause of violence. Could you explain to me how a person with a gun could ever decrease violence? [1] http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/ http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-g... [2] http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/19/ferguson-police-darren-wilson-training-michael-brown/14293979/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/19/ferguso... [3] http://prospect.org/article/expert-us-police-training-use-deadly-force-woefully-inadequate http://prospect.org/article/expert-us-police-training-use-de...
  - 10y ago