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Completely agree (I'm also European). When Porsche unveiled the Mission E, they made spec comparisons to the Tesla Model S. But the Mission E is a concept, sla

Completely agree (I'm also European). When Porsche unveiled the Mission E, they made spec comparisons to the Tesla Model S. But the Mission E is a concept, slated for 2020! VW/Audi, Porsche, BMW and Mercedes need to take a long hard look at themselves. The market is changing way faster than they expected IMO. Just sell a bloody 250 mile range car I can buy for £25k. That's it. It's not hard. Do it, now. Not in 3 years. Now.

zyx321 10y ago
>It's not hard. If it's so easy why don't you do it? Let me guess, you've never designed, built, or shipped any physical product. You're like a first-year art student 'designing' the next iPhone in a 3D rendering program (Half as thick, with twice the battery life! Indestructible edge-to-edge screen!)
- alimbada 10y ago
  It's not hard for existing car manufacturers...
- 0xFFC 10y ago
  I see what you are saying and I partially agree with it. But the point is Audi,BMW,etc they are not first year art student. They have billion dollar R&D budget. Update: And keep in mind Tesla is not product of yesterday. Vibe for electronic car was around I think much longer than Tesla.But big names (Audi,BMW,etc) just ignored it for so long (maybe because of no serious competitor or corruptness -why do they need to work on something revolutionary when they are market leaders) until some guy stepped in and challeged them seriously.
  - zyx321 10y ago
    And they evidently are working on it. But to say "release it now, don't make me wait 5 years" is beyond ignorant.
    - nervousvarun 10y ago
      True but I think his point was "it's not my problem that you didn't start your R&D in a timely manner...say 5 years ago". Anyways that's what I read into it. As consumers we assume hugely successful historical automotive powerhouses like BMW would have something ready to go NOW because they've been working on it already for 5 years (or ten years+ considering Prius). Maybe not always fair, but it's generally what people are going to assume.
    - steejk 10y ago
      There's a cultural difference among traditional automakers in which new innovations are withheld from being released as they are not required to maintain a competitive position. This is very different from the attitude in the Valley/startups in which there appears to be a genuine desire to advance innovation of mankind.
      - vinay427 10y ago
        As someone who has followed the car industry closely for many years, I disagree. Most automakers have been competing to survive on many dimensions throughout their life. It's just that Tesla has added more dimensions to the mix that automakers didn't prepare for, and playing catch-up takes time with such a complex product.
    - dabeeeenster 10y ago
      Beyond ignorant? That's polite. Maybe if the OEMs had spent the last 10 years designing and building electric cars instead of putting out diesel agents that broke the law in dozens of countries they would be in a better position.
- mikeash 10y ago
  "Hard" is relative. GM is doing it right now, Tesla is doing it next year, so there's no real excuse for other car makers other than them simply not wanting to. Sure, I couldn't do it. But the difficulty has an upper bound based on a simple existence proof.
Swizec 10y ago
If it's not hard then why is nobody doing it? Tesla's Model 3 costs £27k, has a range of 215 miles, and is promised to start delivering late next year. That's the state of the art. Best the world can do. Pretty sure that means it's hard.
- alimbada 10y ago
  Tesla is a relatively new company. What's hard for them right now is scaling up production. That shouldn't be hard for the existing car companies out there. Additionally, Tesla have made their battery technology open source in order to drive competition and allow (read: motivate) other car manufacturers to build EVs. So basically, Tesla have already laid all the groundwork. The fact that all the other car manufacturers haven't brought something to market yet shows that they are dragging their feet for some reason or another.
- ecopoesis 10y ago
  No, that's a promise from a company that routinely misses ship dates. State of the art is probably the Chevy Bolt, with its 200+ mile range and cost around $40k. And unlike the Tesla Model 3, it exists. There are lots of reviews of it, and full production starts next week.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    No autopilot. No supercharger network. No over the air software updates. No 8 year/infinite mile power train warranty. State of the art?
- fma 10y ago
  You must have missed the bes where General Motors announced last year they will produce a car that will have 200 Mile range , and have it below $30k after federal tax incentives. And you must have missed the announcement last week when they gave specifics on cost and range. The cost is what they promised, and the range is more than Tesla 3. It will go on sale for the general public at the end of the years. That's you and me, without having to put down a deposit, and wait who knows how long. That probably means those cars are churning out their manufacturing line now. And you must have missed the news when one of Tesla's biggest supporter, Steve Woz, said he would ditch his Tesla for the Checy Bolt. http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1106012_apples-woz-likes-chevy-bolt-ev-better-than-tesla-model-3-he-says http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1106012_apples-woz-likes... Give credit when credit is due. One of the largest and oldest auto manufacturers in the world turned around a, well received fully electrical vehicle on a short amount of time. It is reasonable priced and has more range than Tesla's Model 3. http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1106012_apples-woz-likes-chevy-bolt-ev-better-than-tesla-model-3-he-says http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1106012_apples-woz-likes...
rsync 10y ago
"But the Mission E is a concept, slated for 2020!" ... that will be quietly dumped in a year or two, just in time for a new "company changing electric initiative" in 2018, with production slated for 2024. I hope they save these press releases and just put in new dates - it would be a shame to rewrite them every three years.

zyx321 10y ago

>It's not hard. If it's so easy why don't you do it? Let me guess, you've never designed, built, or shipped any physical product. You're like a first-year art student 'designing' the next iPhone in a 3D rendering program (Half as thick, with twice the battery life! Indestructible edge-to-edge screen!)

alimbada 10y ago
It's not hard for existing car manufacturers...
0xFFC 10y ago
I see what you are saying and I partially agree with it. But the point is Audi,BMW,etc they are not first year art student. They have billion dollar R&D budget. Update: And keep in mind Tesla is not product of yesterday. Vibe for electronic car was around I think much longer than Tesla.But big names (Audi,BMW,etc) just ignored it for so long (maybe because of no serious competitor or corruptness -why do they need to work on something revolutionary when they are market leaders) until some guy stepped in and challeged them seriously.
- zyx321 10y ago
  And they evidently are working on it. But to say "release it now, don't make me wait 5 years" is beyond ignorant.
  - nervousvarun 10y ago
    True but I think his point was "it's not my problem that you didn't start your R&D in a timely manner...say 5 years ago". Anyways that's what I read into it. As consumers we assume hugely successful historical automotive powerhouses like BMW would have something ready to go NOW because they've been working on it already for 5 years (or ten years+ considering Prius). Maybe not always fair, but it's generally what people are going to assume.
  - steejk 10y ago
    There's a cultural difference among traditional automakers in which new innovations are withheld from being released as they are not required to maintain a competitive position. This is very different from the attitude in the Valley/startups in which there appears to be a genuine desire to advance innovation of mankind.
    - vinay427 10y ago
      As someone who has followed the car industry closely for many years, I disagree. Most automakers have been competing to survive on many dimensions throughout their life. It's just that Tesla has added more dimensions to the mix that automakers didn't prepare for, and playing catch-up takes time with such a complex product.
  - dabeeeenster 10y ago
    Beyond ignorant? That's polite. Maybe if the OEMs had spent the last 10 years designing and building electric cars instead of putting out diesel agents that broke the law in dozens of countries they would be in a better position.
mikeash 10y ago
"Hard" is relative. GM is doing it right now, Tesla is doing it next year, so there's no real excuse for other car makers other than them simply not wanting to. Sure, I couldn't do it. But the difficulty has an upper bound based on a simple existence proof.

Swizec 10y ago

If it's not hard then why is nobody doing it? Tesla's Model 3 costs £27k, has a range of 215 miles, and is promised to start delivering late next year. That's the state of the art. Best the world can do. Pretty sure that means it's hard.

alimbada 10y ago
Tesla is a relatively new company. What's hard for them right now is scaling up production. That shouldn't be hard for the existing car companies out there. Additionally, Tesla have made their battery technology open source in order to drive competition and allow (read: motivate) other car manufacturers to build EVs. So basically, Tesla have already laid all the groundwork. The fact that all the other car manufacturers haven't brought something to market yet shows that they are dragging their feet for some reason or another.
ecopoesis 10y ago
No, that's a promise from a company that routinely misses ship dates. State of the art is probably the Chevy Bolt, with its 200+ mile range and cost around $40k. And unlike the Tesla Model 3, it exists. There are lots of reviews of it, and full production starts next week.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  No autopilot. No supercharger network. No over the air software updates. No 8 year/infinite mile power train warranty. State of the art?
fma 10y ago
You must have missed the bes where General Motors announced last year they will produce a car that will have 200 Mile range , and have it below $30k after federal tax incentives. And you must have missed the announcement last week when they gave specifics on cost and range. The cost is what they promised, and the range is more than Tesla 3. It will go on sale for the general public at the end of the years. That's you and me, without having to put down a deposit, and wait who knows how long. That probably means those cars are churning out their manufacturing line now. And you must have missed the news when one of Tesla's biggest supporter, Steve Woz, said he would ditch his Tesla for the Checy Bolt. http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1106012_apples-woz-likes-chevy-bolt-ev-better-than-tesla-model-3-he-says http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1106012_apples-woz-likes... Give credit when credit is due. One of the largest and oldest auto manufacturers in the world turned around a, well received fully electrical vehicle on a short amount of time. It is reasonable priced and has more range than Tesla's Model 3. http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1106012_apples-woz-likes-chevy-bolt-ev-better-than-tesla-model-3-he-says http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1106012_apples-woz-likes...

rsync 10y ago

"But the Mission E is a concept, slated for 2020!" ... that will be quietly dumped in a year or two, just in time for a new "company changing electric initiative" in 2018, with production slated for 2024. I hope they save these press releases and just put in new dates - it would be a shame to rewrite them every three years.