4 ms·

I'd seriously be fine with that. I would not mind giving up all social services, especially not if I got a cashback. That said, I would expect this to come with

by ersii 10y ago

I'd seriously be fine with that. I would not mind giving up all social services, especially not if I got a cashback. That said, I would expect this to come with 'no taxation in the future' as well. That said, I am not everybody.

tjl 10y ago
Would you be seriously fine with the nearest grocery store being an hour away (over deteriorating roads) and it possibly being 3x as expensive? Plus, what are you going to do about garbage? People forget that is also a social service.
- mason240 10y ago
  If they are fine with the nearest store being an hour away, who are you to judge. A tiny group can just burn garbage, or whoever is serving that town that's an hour away can have their truck spend 2 hours every other week to come pick it up.
- AdrianB1 10y ago
  Garbage collection is not a social service, it is a commercial paid service in most of the world. In Europe I don't pay taxes for garbage collection, I pay the garbage company for the quantity they pick up.
  - tjl 10y ago
    In Canada, it's generally the case that your taxes go to pick up the garbage. They might hire a company to do it, but it's usually the municipal government that pays. I'm living in a co-op and we get a tax break since we contract ours separately. Even if it's a commercial paid service, how many companies are going to do that in a dying community?
    - Canada 10y ago
      Not in highrises. Residents for that on their own. Though it's a municipal issue, so it may depend on where you live.
      - tjl 10y ago
        True, but in my co-op (one 6 story building and one 3 story building) we get a tax break because we handle our own garbage. It's far less than our garbage bill, but it helps. I know because a) I used to be the co-op treasurer and b) we actually list it as a line item on our budget so everybody in the co-op can see it if they look.
    - jpindar 10y ago
      In the most rural parts of the US, people don't have garbage collection at all. They compost some of it, burn some, and either drive the rest to the dump themselves or bury it on their own land.
- ersii 10y ago
  Not that those things would necessarily apply or happen just because the collective solution would go away, but yes - I would actually be fine with that.
sandworm101 10y ago
>> I would not mind giving up all social services, especially not if I got a cashback. It's not your decision. The collective system collapses if everyone is given the choose to opt out. Canada isn't going to let people suffer and die along in the woods without help just because they signed an opt-out form. Nor will the country allow seniors, who control most all privately-held wealth these days, to stop paying taxes because they want to live off the grid. Everyone is connected and everyone is expected to participate because when it hits the fan, everyone rushes in to help regardless. I've had this discussion on countless climbing/skiing adventures. A person's choice to walk into the wilderness does not mean the government can abandon them to their fate once things go wrong, no matter what they say about not wanting help.
- norea-armozel 10y ago
  Believe it or not there's no legal basis in the west where the government owes help to individual citizens. Protecting the good common does not in itself transfer 1-to-1 to helping Joe Blow down the street. It just happens that for the common good Joe Blow gets help. It's why cops can let a person die and still get off the hook if helping might endanger more than themselves because if their actions expand the risk to others to help a single person or a small group of people then they can be held liable for negligence. So, there's no theory in law that allows you to make the assertions you're trying to make. I strongly suggest you read on the law because I've seen people try to argue the same sort of stuff you do and find out later in court they got smacked down hard by the judge for the same reasons I've mentioned.

by ersii 10y ago

tjl 10y ago

Would you be seriously fine with the nearest grocery store being an hour away (over deteriorating roads) and it possibly being 3x as expensive? Plus, what are you going to do about garbage? People forget that is also a social service.

mason240 10y ago
If they are fine with the nearest store being an hour away, who are you to judge. A tiny group can just burn garbage, or whoever is serving that town that's an hour away can have their truck spend 2 hours every other week to come pick it up.
AdrianB1 10y ago
Garbage collection is not a social service, it is a commercial paid service in most of the world. In Europe I don't pay taxes for garbage collection, I pay the garbage company for the quantity they pick up.
- tjl 10y ago
  In Canada, it's generally the case that your taxes go to pick up the garbage. They might hire a company to do it, but it's usually the municipal government that pays. I'm living in a co-op and we get a tax break since we contract ours separately. Even if it's a commercial paid service, how many companies are going to do that in a dying community?
  - Canada 10y ago
    Not in highrises. Residents for that on their own. Though it's a municipal issue, so it may depend on where you live.
    - tjl 10y ago
      True, but in my co-op (one 6 story building and one 3 story building) we get a tax break because we handle our own garbage. It's far less than our garbage bill, but it helps. I know because a) I used to be the co-op treasurer and b) we actually list it as a line item on our budget so everybody in the co-op can see it if they look.
  - jpindar 10y ago
    In the most rural parts of the US, people don't have garbage collection at all. They compost some of it, burn some, and either drive the rest to the dump themselves or bury it on their own land.
ersii 10y ago
Not that those things would necessarily apply or happen just because the collective solution would go away, but yes - I would actually be fine with that.

sandworm101 10y ago

>> I would not mind giving up all social services, especially not if I got a cashback. It's not your decision. The collective system collapses if everyone is given the choose to opt out. Canada isn't going to let people suffer and die along in the woods without help just because they signed an opt-out form. Nor will the country allow seniors, who control most all privately-held wealth these days, to stop paying taxes because they want to live off the grid. Everyone is connected and everyone is expected to participate because when it hits the fan, everyone rushes in to help regardless. I've had this discussion on countless climbing/skiing adventures. A person's choice to walk into the wilderness does not mean the government can abandon them to their fate once things go wrong, no matter what they say about not wanting help.

norea-armozel 10y ago
Believe it or not there's no legal basis in the west where the government owes help to individual citizens. Protecting the good common does not in itself transfer 1-to-1 to helping Joe Blow down the street. It just happens that for the common good Joe Blow gets help. It's why cops can let a person die and still get off the hook if helping might endanger more than themselves because if their actions expand the risk to others to help a single person or a small group of people then they can be held liable for negligence. So, there's no theory in law that allows you to make the assertions you're trying to make. I strongly suggest you read on the law because I've seen people try to argue the same sort of stuff you do and find out later in court they got smacked down hard by the judge for the same reasons I've mentioned.