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Steve's second response tells us that he's well aware of what they're doing. The platform is going to be heavily guarded. If you make something for the iPhone o

by jokull 17y ago

Steve's second response tells us that he's well aware of what they're doing. The platform is going to be heavily guarded. If you make something for the iPhone or iPad you're going to have to hire fan-boys or developers who are very, very willing to bow to the Apple.

tjogin 17y ago
So let me get this straight, you are a fanboy per definition if you're an iPhone developer? Holy fundamentalism, Batman!
- jokull 17y ago
  No. Repeating myself now, a fanboy or just willing to work within Apple's tools and nothing else.
  - tjogin 17y ago
    Very close to 100% of iPhone developers are using Apple's tools. Does that mean that all of these developers are either fanboys or willing to "bow down" to Apple, or is there even a smidgeon of a chance that they actually think it's a pretty decent platform to work with? I've heard a lot of complaints about developing for the iPhone, but none about the quality of the development environment.
    - jokull 17y ago
      Dude, I'm not complaining or saying it's a bad platform. Just that if you're going to develop on it you're going to be guided by Apple's choices and platform. As opposed to being able to hack something that in the end runs on the iPhone. That's no longer the case as you're not even allowed to choose the language or tools.
      - tjogin 17y ago
        Right, but since everybody (close to 100%) is already using Apple's platform by choice that means there's no difference from how they were developing apps before. That doesn't suddenly make them "fanboys", or "willing to bow", it just means they like the platform.
    - glenra 17y ago
      > I've heard a lot of complaints about developing for the iPhone, but none about the quality of the development environment. Consider this your first, then: the iPhone development environment sucks. People are using it despite the suckage or because they don't know any better. I do have an app in the app store, but the experience of making it was so painful - the cruftiness of Objective C, the gawdawful poorly-integrated mess of the Interface Builder, and various DRM issues - that I just couldn't take it anymore. I had a long list of apps I wanted to build next and features I wanted to add to the one I had, but programming for the iPhone turned out to be so unpleasant that I couldn't stand doing it. The same sense of aesthetics that makes me really like using the iPhone makes me dislike using Objective C or the iPhone dev environment in general. By way of reference, I really enjoyed programming for the Newton using the Newton Toolkit and NewtonScript, and I really enjoy using Ruby. Ruby and NTK were discoverable in ways that the iPhone toolchain is not. My chief hope, if I ever wanted to develop more iPhone or iPad apps, was that third parties would jump in and fill the gap with more mac-like development tools that I could stand to use on a regular basis. Maybe something like Corona. I could even hope that competition from third party development environments might lead Apple to improve theirs. But no, these hopes have been dashed. So I guess I'll have to continue not developing iPhone apps. Oh, and consider the posts on this blog your second-through-tenth complaints: http://www.iphonerant.com/ http://www.iphonerant.com/
tjr 17y ago
And if you want to make something that runs on airplanes, you're going to have to play by the FAA rules, which also severely limit what nifty computer science techniques (and, in practice, what languages) you can use. Not every development environment is going to be a free-for-all. If a particular environment is too restrictive for our tastes, we don't have to develop there... though if our desire to support the users on the other side of the development environment is strong enough, then we might decide to put up with what may feel like are rather perplexing, pointless rules.
- zaphar 17y ago
  The difference being that you have to play by the FAA rules for all airplane software development. But you have a choice when it comes to mobile development. Android, WebOs, Symbian,... All allow you to do mobile development. The IPhone is not the only game in town. Which is why a move like this could be considered risky by some.
jsz0 17y ago
As an iPhone/iPad user one of the things I like most about it is the UI consistency and being able to install third party apps without a huge amount of paranoia that it will steal my data or crash my phone. I like that I can always get a phone call even when playing a fairly intense 3D game. I accept the restrictions to achieve those goals. That's my choice -- it's also Apple's choice. So I don't really understand why people who have a problem with it don't just go develop for Android, WebOS, BlackBerry, etc. You'll be happier, I'll be happier. We'll have more competition in the SmartPhone market. It's a win-win-win situation. This obsession over the iPhone platform is not healthy. It's not like we don't have choices. Use them.

by jokull 17y ago

tjogin 17y ago

So let me get this straight, you are a fanboy per definition if you're an iPhone developer? Holy fundamentalism, Batman!

jokull 17y ago
No. Repeating myself now, a fanboy or just willing to work within Apple's tools and nothing else.
- tjogin 17y ago
  Very close to 100% of iPhone developers are using Apple's tools. Does that mean that all of these developers are either fanboys or willing to "bow down" to Apple, or is there even a smidgeon of a chance that they actually think it's a pretty decent platform to work with? I've heard a lot of complaints about developing for the iPhone, but none about the quality of the development environment.
  - jokull 17y ago
    Dude, I'm not complaining or saying it's a bad platform. Just that if you're going to develop on it you're going to be guided by Apple's choices and platform. As opposed to being able to hack something that in the end runs on the iPhone. That's no longer the case as you're not even allowed to choose the language or tools.
    - tjogin 17y ago
      Right, but since everybody (close to 100%) is already using Apple's platform by choice that means there's no difference from how they were developing apps before. That doesn't suddenly make them "fanboys", or "willing to bow", it just means they like the platform.
  - glenra 17y ago
    > I've heard a lot of complaints about developing for the iPhone, but none about the quality of the development environment. Consider this your first, then: the iPhone development environment sucks. People are using it despite the suckage or because they don't know any better. I do have an app in the app store, but the experience of making it was so painful - the cruftiness of Objective C, the gawdawful poorly-integrated mess of the Interface Builder, and various DRM issues - that I just couldn't take it anymore. I had a long list of apps I wanted to build next and features I wanted to add to the one I had, but programming for the iPhone turned out to be so unpleasant that I couldn't stand doing it. The same sense of aesthetics that makes me really like using the iPhone makes me dislike using Objective C or the iPhone dev environment in general. By way of reference, I really enjoyed programming for the Newton using the Newton Toolkit and NewtonScript, and I really enjoy using Ruby. Ruby and NTK were discoverable in ways that the iPhone toolchain is not. My chief hope, if I ever wanted to develop more iPhone or iPad apps, was that third parties would jump in and fill the gap with more mac-like development tools that I could stand to use on a regular basis. Maybe something like Corona. I could even hope that competition from third party development environments might lead Apple to improve theirs. But no, these hopes have been dashed. So I guess I'll have to continue not developing iPhone apps. Oh, and consider the posts on this blog your second-through-tenth complaints: http://www.iphonerant.com/ http://www.iphonerant.com/

tjr 17y ago

And if you want to make something that runs on airplanes, you're going to have to play by the FAA rules, which also severely limit what nifty computer science techniques (and, in practice, what languages) you can use. Not every development environment is going to be a free-for-all. If a particular environment is too restrictive for our tastes, we don't have to develop there... though if our desire to support the users on the other side of the development environment is strong enough, then we might decide to put up with what may feel like are rather perplexing, pointless rules.

zaphar 17y ago
The difference being that you have to play by the FAA rules for all airplane software development. But you have a choice when it comes to mobile development. Android, WebOs, Symbian,... All allow you to do mobile development. The IPhone is not the only game in town. Which is why a move like this could be considered risky by some.

jsz0 17y ago

As an iPhone/iPad user one of the things I like most about it is the UI consistency and being able to install third party apps without a huge amount of paranoia that it will steal my data or crash my phone. I like that I can always get a phone call even when playing a fairly intense 3D game. I accept the restrictions to achieve those goals. That's my choice -- it's also Apple's choice. So I don't really understand why people who have a problem with it don't just go develop for Android, WebOS, BlackBerry, etc. You'll be happier, I'll be happier. We'll have more competition in the SmartPhone market. It's a win-win-win situation. This obsession over the iPhone platform is not healthy. It's not like we don't have choices. Use them.