5 ms·

I think it has to do with local incomes and land area. The GTA is massive when considering land area. Incomes don't compare to places like SF and NY. Although I

I think it has to do with local incomes and land area. The GTA is massive when considering land area. Incomes don't compare to places like SF and NY. Although I might be wrong on the income front. A friend of mine remarked that lawyers and bankers in TO may be making 300K+. So maybe I'm wrong about local incomes being depressed.

Tiktaalik 10y ago
This is a big part of it. It's not that the cities are expensive, it's that they're so unaffordable. This is especially so in Vancouver where the average income (~C43k)[1] is lower than Toronto, and yet prices are higher. The large disparity between local incomes and housing prices is a major reason why there is so much attention on the implications of foreign capital on Vancouver's housing market. It seems like there hasn't been as much concern or interest in Toronto, but there probably should be. [1] http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/for-vancouver-housing-and-income-dont-add-up/article12436288/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/for-vancouver-hou...
- sedachv 10y ago
  Vancouver real estate is the way it is because it has been targeted by Chinese ponzi schemes, bank fraud schemes, and money laundering: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/out-of-the-shadows/article31802994/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/out-of-... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/canadian-banks-mortgage-guidelines-favour-foreign-home-buyers/article31869946/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/canadia... http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/chinese-police-run-secret-operations-in-b-c-to-hunt-allegedly-corrupt-officials-and-laundered-money http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/chinese-police-run-...
  - msie 10y ago
    Alas, another victim of media hype.
  - CountSessine 10y ago
    It's fascinating watching the carnage on mls now, with the 15% tax in place. No one can sell their houses now. And everyone seems to have a story about holding an open house that no one attends. The money is just gone. It's just like the market collapse back in the late 80's when interest rates climbed into the double-digits; no discretionary seller wants to lower their price from $1.3 million when that was a feasible offer 2 months ago, but no one wants (or rather no one is left) to offer that price. The market just seizes and eventually non-discretionary sellers are left to define the market.
    - trapperkeeper79 10y ago
      It doesn't look like TO will implement the foreigner tax. Just hear talk but no action. Frankly, the amount of the tax is so tiny, it makes me believe that there is something else afoot. In any case, I'm dreaming of the day housing becomes affordable in Canada once again.
      - CountSessine 10y ago
        Frankly, the amount of the tax is so tiny, it makes me believe that there is something else afoot. It won't make any difference at all to the dozen or so billionaires who are looking to buy their Nth house in Vancouver. But it has devastated the detached housing market below $5 million here and that will ultimately put pressure on condos and townhouses. I think the only reason it's working is that TO and Seattle don't have a similar tax; Vancouver has made itself less attractive, but only marginally so.
nibs 10y ago
Finance and law associates here make $80-100k including incentives. SW devs $60-100k. $300k+ CAD would be for partners, top sales people and consulting/law rainmakers.
- trapperkeeper79 10y ago
  Well .. then I'm not sure how anyone affords a 2.5 million dollar detached home pretty much from Yonge and Finch to Yonge and Bloor. I mention the subway lines cause working people typically have to get to work :-p
  - nibs 10y ago
    Because they bought it when it was worth $700k with two working partners making the income I mention about. Toronto Life and Globe and Mail both frequently interview people about their personal financial situation. With a few high earning exceptions, mostly it is because they bought 10 years ago and are drowning in debt and/or sold their existing property. Very few people, even well-educated, dual-earning high-self-discipline couples, are really "entering" the market for houses. Depending on earning power my friends continue to live at home through 20s (low), rent an apartment or condo (mid) or buy a condo (high). That is about where it falls for people in their 20s here, similar I imagine to other world centers.

Tiktaalik 10y ago

This is a big part of it. It's not that the cities are expensive, it's that they're so unaffordable. This is especially so in Vancouver where the average income (~C43k)[1] is lower than Toronto, and yet prices are higher. The large disparity between local incomes and housing prices is a major reason why there is so much attention on the implications of foreign capital on Vancouver's housing market. It seems like there hasn't been as much concern or interest in Toronto, but there probably should be. [1] http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/for-vancouver-housing-and-income-dont-add-up/article12436288/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/for-vancouver-hou...

sedachv 10y ago
Vancouver real estate is the way it is because it has been targeted by Chinese ponzi schemes, bank fraud schemes, and money laundering: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/out-of-the-shadows/article31802994/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/out-of-... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/canadian-banks-mortgage-guidelines-favour-foreign-home-buyers/article31869946/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/canadia... http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/chinese-police-run-secret-operations-in-b-c-to-hunt-allegedly-corrupt-officials-and-laundered-money http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/chinese-police-run-...
- msie 10y ago
  Alas, another victim of media hype.
- CountSessine 10y ago
  It's fascinating watching the carnage on mls now, with the 15% tax in place. No one can sell their houses now. And everyone seems to have a story about holding an open house that no one attends. The money is just gone. It's just like the market collapse back in the late 80's when interest rates climbed into the double-digits; no discretionary seller wants to lower their price from $1.3 million when that was a feasible offer 2 months ago, but no one wants (or rather no one is left) to offer that price. The market just seizes and eventually non-discretionary sellers are left to define the market.
  - trapperkeeper79 10y ago
    It doesn't look like TO will implement the foreigner tax. Just hear talk but no action. Frankly, the amount of the tax is so tiny, it makes me believe that there is something else afoot. In any case, I'm dreaming of the day housing becomes affordable in Canada once again.
    - CountSessine 10y ago
      Frankly, the amount of the tax is so tiny, it makes me believe that there is something else afoot. It won't make any difference at all to the dozen or so billionaires who are looking to buy their Nth house in Vancouver. But it has devastated the detached housing market below $5 million here and that will ultimately put pressure on condos and townhouses. I think the only reason it's working is that TO and Seattle don't have a similar tax; Vancouver has made itself less attractive, but only marginally so.

nibs 10y ago

Finance and law associates here make $80-100k including incentives. SW devs $60-100k. $300k+ CAD would be for partners, top sales people and consulting/law rainmakers.

trapperkeeper79 10y ago
Well .. then I'm not sure how anyone affords a 2.5 million dollar detached home pretty much from Yonge and Finch to Yonge and Bloor. I mention the subway lines cause working people typically have to get to work :-p
- nibs 10y ago
  Because they bought it when it was worth $700k with two working partners making the income I mention about. Toronto Life and Globe and Mail both frequently interview people about their personal financial situation. With a few high earning exceptions, mostly it is because they bought 10 years ago and are drowning in debt and/or sold their existing property. Very few people, even well-educated, dual-earning high-self-discipline couples, are really "entering" the market for houses. Depending on earning power my friends continue to live at home through 20s (low), rent an apartment or condo (mid) or buy a condo (high). That is about where it falls for people in their 20s here, similar I imagine to other world centers.