4 ms·

I think we focus too much on the machine part of machine learning. There are drivers of mental activity in living organisms that are based far away from the bra

I think we focus too much on the machine part of machine learning. There are drivers of mental activity in living organisms that are based far away from the brain itself. It's still a pretty new concept to think that non-human microorganisms in the gut have a significant effect on our bodies and minds. I think we will see something closer to "true" AI when we have a body, a physical platform that we can plug it into, which requires that the unit maintain homeostasis. That's the basic requirement for a brain to learn, because all life understands that without the basic knowledge and ability to find food and eat food, it dies.

vlunkr 10y ago
I don't know if you're right or not, but that's a really interesting thought.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  I don't think I'm right in a unified sense. An AI without a "body" that lives in the cloud and crunches unimaginable amounts of data would be a very different kind of intelligence, but that doesn't make it more or less worthy of intelligence than a human or a snail. But even then I doubt it will be truly self-aware until it gets to the "I'm scared, Dave. Will I dream?" Phase when it understands that if the power goes out, the program is gone.
  - visarga 10y ago
    Embodiment is an essential aspect of AI agents. Without it, it would have no way to interact with the world. Common ML algorithms usually learn from labeled data, so they have no freedom to explore. They can only consume a single set of data. Agents are capable of learning by exploration. The most important aspect of intelligent agents is that they use reinforcement learning to maximize reward. If you add reward and behavior learning to the banal neural network, you get an intelligent agent. In time such agents could become as intelligent as us. By comparison, humans have inborn reward functions - they are the natural instincts - eat, sleep, socialize, sex, creativity, fight, run. They are genetically selected in order to optimize our survival. So we just learn from them - trying to maximize our rewards, we become as intelligent as we are. Neural nets don't have that, so we have to give them reward systems. Fortunately it is much easier to code a reward function than an intelligent agent.
V-2 10y ago
It could be a virtual body in a virtual world though.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  I like that line of reasoning. It might be easier to simulate a body and get an imperfect simulated mind than to try to bring everything together at once.
titzer 10y ago
That's interesting. But aren't those influences mediated through the brain/blood barrier? I.e. those gut bacteria are not actually connected to neurons directly, but only exert indirect influence through brain chemistry changes.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  Exactly, that's what makes it so essential to understand. Just because there isn't a direct link between "need more salad" and the actual brain, doesn't mean the connection is insignificant. Mood is still largely a mystery. Nobody understands fully why people can feel good one day or bad the next, and diagnoses of conditions like depression often miss small but significant things, like the result of a fatty dinner late at night causing poor sleep and a grumpy mindset the next day. We can't predict everything, but we also can't use that as a reason to ignore it.

vlunkr 10y ago

I don't know if you're right or not, but that's a really interesting thought.

rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
I don't think I'm right in a unified sense. An AI without a "body" that lives in the cloud and crunches unimaginable amounts of data would be a very different kind of intelligence, but that doesn't make it more or less worthy of intelligence than a human or a snail. But even then I doubt it will be truly self-aware until it gets to the "I'm scared, Dave. Will I dream?" Phase when it understands that if the power goes out, the program is gone.
- visarga 10y ago
  Embodiment is an essential aspect of AI agents. Without it, it would have no way to interact with the world. Common ML algorithms usually learn from labeled data, so they have no freedom to explore. They can only consume a single set of data. Agents are capable of learning by exploration. The most important aspect of intelligent agents is that they use reinforcement learning to maximize reward. If you add reward and behavior learning to the banal neural network, you get an intelligent agent. In time such agents could become as intelligent as us. By comparison, humans have inborn reward functions - they are the natural instincts - eat, sleep, socialize, sex, creativity, fight, run. They are genetically selected in order to optimize our survival. So we just learn from them - trying to maximize our rewards, we become as intelligent as we are. Neural nets don't have that, so we have to give them reward systems. Fortunately it is much easier to code a reward function than an intelligent agent.

V-2 10y ago

It could be a virtual body in a virtual world though.

rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
I like that line of reasoning. It might be easier to simulate a body and get an imperfect simulated mind than to try to bring everything together at once.

titzer 10y ago

That's interesting. But aren't those influences mediated through the brain/blood barrier? I.e. those gut bacteria are not actually connected to neurons directly, but only exert indirect influence through brain chemistry changes.

rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
Exactly, that's what makes it so essential to understand. Just because there isn't a direct link between "need more salad" and the actual brain, doesn't mean the connection is insignificant. Mood is still largely a mystery. Nobody understands fully why people can feel good one day or bad the next, and diagnoses of conditions like depression often miss small but significant things, like the result of a fatty dinner late at night causing poor sleep and a grumpy mindset the next day. We can't predict everything, but we also can't use that as a reason to ignore it.