10 ms·

Fungus in humans identified for first time as key factor in Crohn's disease

155 points by ph0rque 10y ago

serg_chernata 10y ago
Gut bacteria is in the news a lot lately. As an interesting side note, during one of Joe Rogan's podcasts someone mentioned that if you think of our digestive system as a tube connecting two holes in the body then everything inside of our stomach is external. I've never thought of it that way. Fascinating. For anyone interested Joe's podcast is actually incredibly informative and dense with good information.
- splawn 10y ago
  "Joe's podcast is actually incredibly informative and dense with good information." If you want to be informed with what ever the latest pseudoscience/conspiracy fad is. Rogan has a reputation for his lack of critical thinking. Fake moon landing, 9-11 "truther" BS, chemtrails... all things he has pushed on his show. Oh yeah don't forget to buy stuff from his line of supplements too! Imo, he is nothing more than a meathead snake oil salesman that happens to be funny too.
  - jokull 10y ago
    He has that reputation but he has also improved a lot over the years.
    - splawn 10y ago
      I am glad to hear that, but if you are looking for an actual science podcast there is too much competition out there for one that has "improved a lot over the years", imo. I recommend "This week in microbiology" for the topic of the OP, btw.
      - cmdrfred 10y ago
        Also this week in virology if you like such things.
  - beachstartup 10y ago
    his podcast is pure entertainment, he says so himself quite often. he makes fart and dick jokes and says dirty words and drinks liquor and smokes weed while on air. if you take this seriously and are somehow indignant about the content or the sponsors, that's on you, not him. "if you're looking for real science, then..." -- well no kidding dude. it's entertainment and can serve as a jumping off point to do your own research. having said that his UFC content is really good, but you're probably not into that sort of thing, what with your 'meathead' pejorative which i guess you think is somehow cool because we like computers and supposedly shun exercise? that's cool i guess.
    - splawn 10y ago
      You are 100% correct, and if the article had been about how fart, dick jokes, and UFC was identified for the first time as a key factor in Chron's disease then perhaps your correctness would have a point related to the discussion.
      - beachstartup 10y ago
        well, fortunately, you don't decide what can or can not be discussed in a thread, the community does through voting and moderation.
        splawn 10y ago
        At least we are in violent agreement that Rogan is "for entertainment purposes only". :)
  - busterarm 10y ago
    Pushed!? He often says the stuff is wacky but that he loves considering the ideas. He likes to talk to cranks. What good are your ideas if they can't stand up to being challenged by the ideas of others?
  - laserDinosaur 10y ago
    I was just starting to get into his old podcasts when he was interviewing Bas Rutten and started saying how cutting out gluten made him a hundred times more healthy and fixed all his ailing woes. I couldn't believe some of the stuff he was saying it fixed. It was at least a bit funny because I guess Bas knew it was all BS since he uncharacteristically goes very silent while Joe peddles the anti-gluten bandwagon. I stopped listening after that.
    - serg_chernata 10y ago
      Pretty sure Bas said that, not Joe
- runeb 10y ago
  There are so many good podcasts I can never get into, because they are often multiple hours per episode. Joe Rogan often on the 3 hour mark. How do people find time to listen/watch all the good content out there? TL;DR is the zeitgeist, and I want to fight it. I want to read long form articles, books and listen to these great podcasts, but the number of hours in my day don't seem to allow it. Do people set aside time? Am I just inherently bad at managing my time?
  - selectodude 10y ago
    Rogan's podcast is absolutely perfect background listening.
  - bluedino 10y ago
    >> Joe Rogan often on the 3 hour mark. That's how long most morning radio shows are.
  - chadgeidel 10y ago
    I listen to podcasts for at least 10 hours per week and I probably manage to listen to 20 hours of podcasts in that time. Most podcasts I listen to can be sped up to about 1.3x speed with no obvious loss in quality. Additionally I use a podcast app [1] that "removes audio gaps" which basically chops out "pauses" and "no sound" areas of the podcast. [1] https://overcast.fm/ https://overcast.fm/
  - throwanem 10y ago
    I also use Overcast, whose "smart speed" feature is very good. As far as finding time goes, I spend about 90 minutes a day commuting by foot and light rail, which combined with a cheap Bluetooth earbud (check Amazon) makes for very reasonable listening time. Perhaps something similar would work with your daily routine.
  - serg_chernata 10y ago
    While driving; daily commute :)
- btreesOfSpring 10y ago
  > someone mentioned that if you think of our digestive system as a tube connecting two holes in the body then everything inside of our stomach is external. For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure this was said somewhere in the Chris Kresser, Joe Rogan Experience podcast episode #842.[0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_2vNj8pshY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_2vNj8pshY
- kale 10y ago
  Mathematically, "inside" our stomachs and intestines are "outside" our body. They are also outside of our body by looking at epithelial tissue, which has an inside/outside orientation.
- munificent 10y ago
  Topologically speaking, a human is a torus. Your digestive system is the hole in the doughnut. Interestingly, this means in a two-dimensional world, an organism couldn't have a similar structure, since the digestive system would completely separate the animal into two halves.
  - Govannon 10y ago
    Not to be obtuse, but wouldn't what is basically an anthropomorphic doughnut be fine in two dimensions? Or do you just mean that that would not likely be the digestive tract of such a thing?
    - Vraxx 10y ago
      But you can't have a doughnut in two dimensions either, the two sides would have to be separated by the hole or else it's not really a doughnut, it's just a circle without a digestive system.
  - billmalarky 10y ago
    Futurama had a fun episode that dealt with this. https://theinfosphere.org/2-D_Blacktop https://theinfosphere.org/2-D_Blacktop
  - apr 10y ago
    Where would you place the nostrils?
    - munificent 10y ago
      Assuming we can ignore your septum and the roof of your mouth, your respiratory system is basically just an indentation in your head. From a topology perspective, it doesn't really exist. Your lungs are on the outside.
      - apr 10y ago
        But that's the thing, you cannot ignore those parts in topology. Even if they look small compared to the rest of the body.
drvdevd 10y ago
Reading the overview of this study - am I incorrect in thinking "correlation" not "causation" wrt the particular species of fungi (Candida tropicalis) and the biofilm produced being a key factor?
- andrewflnr 10y ago
  I don't know, but "lockstep" is a pretty darn strong correlation, with a solid hypothesis for a causative mechanism. I'll wait to see if the treatments actually work, but as someone with a friend who suffered from this, I'm excited.
- driverdan 10y ago
  You're correct. The linked story is PR and overstates the findings. As you can see by the researchers' statements they are far more cautious at stating causation.
- HillaryBriss 10y ago
  I couldn't find an ungated copy, but this is in the abstract: The abundance of the fungus Candida tropicalis was significantly higher in CD than in NCDR (P = 0.003) samples and positively correlated with levels of anti-Saccharomyces cerevisiae antibodies (ASCA). The abundance of C. tropicalis was positively correlated with S. marcescens and E. coli, suggesting that these organisms interact in the gut. All we know about correlation level from this is r > 0. More here: http://mbio.asm.org/content/7/5/e01250-16 http://mbio.asm.org/content/7/5/e01250-16
M_Grey 10y ago
My college roommate had Crohn's and it was... brutal just to see what it did to him. I remember spending some time in our dorm room helping him get some Ensure down one time, and he told me how scared he was of ending up in a wheelchair with a colostomy and so on.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  I worked with a young guy that suddenly found out he had it. He started feeling ill, then pain, and wound up in the hospital for some time. He didn't know he had it: I know for a while he wound up with a colostomy bag as his colon healed, and was looking at a lifetime of restricted eating and other such things. To make matters worse, his long-term girlfriend/fiance left him while he was in the hospital. I wish I knew what happened to him. He wound up moving out of state to stay with his parents as he got better, and basically cut most folks out of his life at that time.
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    A somewhat similar end result with my college roommate... he move home to be with family and his world seemed to shrink. We lost touch as well.
jobu 10y ago
test-tube research by the Ghannoum-led team found that the three work together (with the E. coli cells fusing to the [Candida tropicalis] cells and S. marcescens forming a bridge connecting the microbes) to produce a biofilm -- a thin, slimy layer of microorganisms found in the body that adheres to, among other sites, a portion of the intestines -- which can prompt inflammation that results in the symptoms of Crohn's disease. That seems like a huge find. Biofilms can be very hardy and difficult to break down. I wonder what a treatment for something like this would be.
- abledon 10y ago
  A traditional mixture could consist of pau d'arco, wormwood, black walnut bark, clove, and garlic. This is used often in Native-American/Indian/Chinese-Medicine.
  - QuickQuestion23 10y ago
    Can you share where you came by this information? I've got a relative with Crohn's.
    - trhway 10y ago
      man, i'm not a doctor, and i dealt only with smaller issue - candida overgrowth - and thus it may be related, if there is any relation at all (again i'm not a doctor), only as long as candida is related to Crohn's. So take it as a personal anonymous anecdote you read on Internet :) For candida overgrowth for me there were 2 parts - dietary changes and antifungals. Dietary changes. While being a heavy consumer of breads and pastries, i stopped eating white bread and similar yeast and sugar rich stuff from the stores. Found a good Russian and German bread instead, and sometimes enjoy their pastries. And whole wheat bagels. Gives me that carbohydrate fix. Several years ago, for moral reasons, i stopped eating pork, lamb and beef, and accidentally it helped too as the US beef seems to be a stuff that candida likes, at least it was liking it in my case. And also i did a bunch of other small changes in those general directions, increasing greens/veggies consumption and in general similar to what the other poster says about "good" and "bad" foods/drinks (except for coffee, still drink it though it is more neutral than "good" or may be even a bit toward "bad" for me). Also based on my experience, in particular with letting go of heavy meats and eating more greens/veggies, i believe the other guy who mentioned veganism though myself i haven't been able to make such big of jump. Antifungals. I didn't went medical antifungals as they are heavy on liver and the reported results from various Internet accounts aren't better than natural antifungals. There are a lot of natural antifungals, and it is more about what works for you personally. I tried apple cider vinegar, garlic, virgin coconut oil, ginger. All of them work to a good degree, initially better, after some time the fungi seems to adapt somewhat. The mix of those natural antifungals seems to work the best. I didn't really liked the coconut oil. So i ended up with daily regiment of double dose of garlic pills (i like the real garlic, yet the smell is an issue at home and work), several cups of ginger tea during the day at work, and 2 table spoons of apple cider vinegar 2 times a day (of course diluted in a cup of water or just used as a dressing for a large cucumber/tomato/greens/etc. salad. Also that dose is a result of my personal experience, i started with 1 or 2 table spoons per cup of water 3-4 times a day, it worked for me, yet dosing down and adding ginger and garlic instead worked even better, and one would want to be easy on vinegar). Frequently instead of the diluted vinegar i drink Kevita - apple juice with the apple cider vinegar with ginger with probiotic - works better than the equivalent volume of diluted vinegar alone, in particular because probiotic is extremely important in dealing with candida. One of the main things that i learned - it took me couple of months to work out the regiment once i set out on fixing the issue - is that it is very individualized and require some careful experimentation and observation.
nickpsecurity 10y ago
This is good news. I like how they identified a precise mechanism that might contribute to it. Maybe eliminating at least one of these three in the body might knock out or reduce the condition. Depends on if other stuff is involved.
- kale 10y ago
  Biofilms are nasty stuff. I did part of my master's thesis on them. They group together and communicate with each other (with electrical grids, according to Dr. Costerton, one of the forefront researchers of biofilms before he passed away). Some species use the film to coordinate a certain percentage of bugs stay in a "dormant" state, so they won't intake an antibiotic and die. For artificial joints like a hip and a knee joint, you have a lot of exposed materials like titanium, stainless steel, or medical polymer, so it doesn't have an immune system. Getting a biofilm infection forming on an artificial joint sometimes means taking the implant out, even if it's working fine. So biofilms are a tough problem. They're far more sinister than conventional bacterial colonies. Since this is in the digestive tract, I wonder if some type of detergent can be found that simply dissolves the film matrix, washing away the bacteria and fungi.
  - technofiend 10y ago
    I had one form in my mouth after overexposure to an antifungal. It has resisted several rounds of antibiotics including Cipro. Nasty stuff. As far as I know it's unique to me, so if you know any grad students who want a mouth swab let me know.
  - HillaryBriss 10y ago
    That's really interesting. I haven't learned about the biofilm aspect of this disease before. And, I guess the biofilm in this case is especially tough. From the abstract: The mass and thickness of triple-species (C. tropicalis plus S. marcescens plus E. coli) biofilm were significantly greater than those of single- and double-species biofilms. From: http://mbio.asm.org/content/7/5/e01250-16 http://mbio.asm.org/content/7/5/e01250-16
- throwanem 10y ago
tylorr 10y ago
I wonder if this finding could help with ulcerative colitis as well
- dmix 10y ago
  Wondering the same thing, from my understanding UC is a variation of Chrons. Although I've personally found it pretty easy to manage after my initially attack in my early 20s. But I've heard Chrons is different and treatment is much more diet-based. Whereas with Colitis there doesn't seem to be a connection to nutrition (yet).
  - HillRat 10y ago
    Crohn's is best understood as a collection of symptoms than an actual diagnosis, because -- this article being a case in point -- the underlying etiology isn't understood. For example, treatments that work on Crohn's patients in Japan don't work on US patients, indicating that the diagnosis is covering multiple disorders.
    - dmix 10y ago
      Interesting. I believe HIV has a similar issue? Where a weakened immune system causes a bunch of other illnesses and cancers. The doctors told me UC is the immune system overreacting and damaging the colon. So it's still possible it's correlated to the bodies microbiome. But as you mentioned it could be very person/ethnic-specific.
    - HillaryBriss 10y ago
      Interesting note about treatment working in Japan but not US. Do you have any more details about that? Thanks.
      - HillRat 10y ago
        The gold standard protocol in Japan has traditionally been exclusive enteral nutrition, but Crohn's in western countries has generally been refractory in studies. Japanese remission rates are reported in the 70-90% range, so it's a pretty significant finding. The Royston Vasey Journal of Culinary Medicine also had some intriguing results from a meat-based therapeutic diet, but the control population disappeared before conclusive results could be drawn.
eth0up 10y ago
Perhaps a (key?) factor in Alzheimer's too. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24614898 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24614898 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/26/health/alzheimers-disease-infection.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/26/health/alzheimers-disease-...
hospes 10y ago
"Furthermore, we found strong similarities in what may be called the 'gut profiles' of the Crohn's-affected families, which were strikingly different from the Crohn's-free families." It seems that fecal transplant (or pills based on them) can alter/fix gut profiles[1]. I wonder if someone tried fecal transplant to cure Cron's disease. [1] https://youtu.be/e_dF1N-Ckbw?t=1m44s https://youtu.be/e_dF1N-Ckbw?t=1m44s Edit: It seems this has been tried and pretty successful[2]. "A recent publication in the journal Inflammatory Bowel Diseases titled, “Fecal Microbial Transplant Effect on Clinical Outcomes and Fecal Microbiome in Active Crohn’s Disease,” reports seven of nine patients with Crohn’s disease were effectively treated using FMT in a Seattle Children’s research study." [2] http://pulse.seattlechildrens.org/study-suggests-fecal-transplant-could-be-effective-treatment-for-crohns-disease/ http://pulse.seattlechildrens.org/study-suggests-fecal-trans...
- redtuesday 10y ago
  If I remember correctly there was another study a few years back in europe (by Prof Raedler?) which was not as effective. Will try to dig it up tomorrow, I'm too sleepy right now.
  - redtuesday 10y ago
    My memory has failed me. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4209544/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4209544/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3974513/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3974513/
dmix 10y ago
I read in another article that Fungus has been neglected in medical pathology research: > As of November 2015, only 269 of more than 6,000 Web of Science search results for the term “microbiome” even mention “fungus,” and the scientific search engine returns only 55 papers pertaining to the “mycobiome.” > Despite this lack of attention, a handful of recent studies point to the importance of our commensal fungal inhabitants as critical players in human health and disease. http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/45153/title/The-Mycobiome/ http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/45153/... Hopefully this type of research will help with a large variety of illnesses.
matchagaucho 10y ago
In my experience Crohn's bacteria, and now apparently fungi, love to feed on processed sugars and dairy products. To stay in remission, I focus on diet and exercise, and deny the bacteria the fuel they require (at least, that's my theory). Big pharma has largely focused on alleviating the inflammatory symptoms of auto-immune response. Treating the symptoms and not the cause unfortunately allows the vicious cycle to continue. I hope discoveries like this will encourage more Medical Professionals to pursue preemptive dietary, naturopathic, and lifestyle remedies for managing Crohn's. However, these remedies are not profitable, so I'm not optimistic :-(
- fosco 10y ago
  would love to hear more about your experiences and how your diet influences 'good' and 'bad' choices to stay in remission or go into in the first place.
  - matchagaucho 10y ago
    I wish there were more "absolute" rules. There are so many dietary exceptions. Here are a few I live by to manage Crohn's. Water: Probably the #1 most important thing for Crohn's patients to manage is water consumption. Bottled water whenever possible. More specifically, the more alkaline the better. Tap water, unless you live in the mountains, is commonly bad on the digestive tract. Fried food: Generally "bad", but food fried with certain oils seems to be okay. The oil needs to be fresh. Fried food from fast food chains is always "bad". Sugars: Complex sugars are "bad". Monosaccharide sugars, found in fruits or honey, are okay. Vegetables: "Good" when steamed. But undigested raw veggies increases risk of triggering an auto-immune response. I eat small salads... ideally chef salads with some protein (ham/bacon/turkey). Fruits: Similar to veggies, only small portions. Don't let roughage linger in digestive system too long. Dark Chocolate: 80%+ cocoa in moderation tends to be okay. The endorphin rush is a plus and a good substitute for coffee. Popcorn: Definitely off limits. Auto-immune response triggers when the body detects undigested kernels. Dairy: Odd mix. Milk is extremely "bad". Won't even touch it. So is milk chocolate. Eggs are okay if used in cooking, but I avoid eating plain eggs for breakfast. Butter and many gourmet cheeses are fine (processed cheese is "bad"). Coffee: I drink a lot of coffee. Probably too much. The water, beans, and preparation process all contribute to coffee being "good" for Crohn's. Coffee becomes "bad" if there are any additives, such as dairy or sugar. Not even dairy substitutes, like soy, can be added. Meats: Okay in moderation, but lately I've been cutting back on red meats after learning more about increased risk of colon cancer in Crohn's patients. High quality beef burgers and fish are common staples. Alcohol: I abstained from drinking for many years when first diagnosed with Crohn's, but was pleasantly surprised to discover that I could introduce many "top shelf" brands in moderation without any real symptoms. I've learned a lot about the distillation process of wines and spirits as a result. There are such things as "good" and "bad" alcohol. Craft Beer: Similar to above, there are "good" and "bad" beer yeasts and fermentation processes. It's very hit or miss, but when I discover a craft beer that "works" with my digestive system, I stick with it. Lagunitas is an example of a beer that happens to be "good" with my gut bacteria.
just_a_guy_101 10y ago
Maybe we can finally begin to take a closer look at naturopathic remedies. The key to killing fungus in humans is to a) deny their fuel source through diet and b) strengthen the human system by proper carb/fat/protein ratio, essential oils, and healthy fats (omega 3/6/9, medium-chain saturated fats, etc).
- blacksmith_tb 10y ago
  That might be an approach, though it would be helpful to see citations (not that improving diet is a bad idea in general). There are also drugs like Lufenuron [1] which is a chitin synthase inhibitor (fungi make their cell walls from chitin, while mammals don't synthesize chitin at all). 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufenuron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufenuron
- pjlegato 10y ago
  To the extent that naturopathic remedies actually work, that fact is easily demonstrable through the scientific method, and they become known as just "remedies" rather than "naturopathic remedies."
calinet6 10y ago
I'm so happy to see the increase in gut microbiome research lately, as someone suffering from an immune-related colitis. There's very clearly a correlation with anti-microbial and microbe-influecing things (pepto bismol, herbal antimicrobial supplements, and probiotics) and my general well being, but let's just say it's very difficult to get specialists to focus on anything other than treating symptoms. The microbiome matters a whole lot, and it's starting to become clear how. These are great developments and I hope to see the trend continue.
mynegation 10y ago
Gut microbiome seems to be linked to many diseases. My knowledge in biology and medicine is next to zero, but I was wondering if the following would be a feasible strategy: * collect many samples from people with various symptoms * do metagenomic sequencing on these samples to find what species are present in which samples * machine learn the s--t out of this to find associations/correlations * ...um, profit? What would be the main problem on this way? Cost? Reliability of sequencing? Correlation not implying causation? Me talking nonsense? This finding, from what I understand, connected Crohn to the presense of three species working together to form a microfilm. Would not that be something to be found with the method like this?
- hanklazard 10y ago
  You'd also want to analyze the genomes of each individual from which the samples were taken, particularly for immune factors. While no one has figured out exactly why specific gene variants such as HLA-b27 seem to be implicated in a number of autoimmune diseases, the associations are clearly there.
themodernlife 10y ago
Reminds me of this article: http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/07/how-a-guy-from-a-montana-trailer-park-upturned-150-years-of-biology/491702/ http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/07/how-a-guy... Fungi play an interesting role in these systems.

155 points by ph0rque 10y ago

Gut bacteria is in the news a lot lately. As an interesting side note, during one of Joe Rogan's podcasts someone mentioned that if you think of our digestive system as a tube connecting two holes in the body then everything inside of our stomach is external. I've never thought of it that way. Fascinating. For anyone interested Joe's podcast is actually incredibly informative and dense with good information.

splawn 10y ago
"Joe's podcast is actually incredibly informative and dense with good information." If you want to be informed with what ever the latest pseudoscience/conspiracy fad is. Rogan has a reputation for his lack of critical thinking. Fake moon landing, 9-11 "truther" BS, chemtrails... all things he has pushed on his show. Oh yeah don't forget to buy stuff from his line of supplements too! Imo, he is nothing more than a meathead snake oil salesman that happens to be funny too.
- jokull 10y ago
  He has that reputation but he has also improved a lot over the years.
  - splawn 10y ago
    I am glad to hear that, but if you are looking for an actual science podcast there is too much competition out there for one that has "improved a lot over the years", imo. I recommend "This week in microbiology" for the topic of the OP, btw.
    - cmdrfred 10y ago
      Also this week in virology if you like such things.
- beachstartup 10y ago
  his podcast is pure entertainment, he says so himself quite often. he makes fart and dick jokes and says dirty words and drinks liquor and smokes weed while on air. if you take this seriously and are somehow indignant about the content or the sponsors, that's on you, not him. "if you're looking for real science, then..." -- well no kidding dude. it's entertainment and can serve as a jumping off point to do your own research. having said that his UFC content is really good, but you're probably not into that sort of thing, what with your 'meathead' pejorative which i guess you think is somehow cool because we like computers and supposedly shun exercise? that's cool i guess.
  - splawn 10y ago
    You are 100% correct, and if the article had been about how fart, dick jokes, and UFC was identified for the first time as a key factor in Chron's disease then perhaps your correctness would have a point related to the discussion.
    - beachstartup 10y ago
      well, fortunately, you don't decide what can or can not be discussed in a thread, the community does through voting and moderation.
      - splawn 10y ago
        At least we are in violent agreement that Rogan is "for entertainment purposes only". :)
- busterarm 10y ago
  Pushed!? He often says the stuff is wacky but that he loves considering the ideas. He likes to talk to cranks. What good are your ideas if they can't stand up to being challenged by the ideas of others?
- laserDinosaur 10y ago
  I was just starting to get into his old podcasts when he was interviewing Bas Rutten and started saying how cutting out gluten made him a hundred times more healthy and fixed all his ailing woes. I couldn't believe some of the stuff he was saying it fixed. It was at least a bit funny because I guess Bas knew it was all BS since he uncharacteristically goes very silent while Joe peddles the anti-gluten bandwagon. I stopped listening after that.
  - serg_chernata 10y ago
    Pretty sure Bas said that, not Joe
runeb 10y ago
There are so many good podcasts I can never get into, because they are often multiple hours per episode. Joe Rogan often on the 3 hour mark. How do people find time to listen/watch all the good content out there? TL;DR is the zeitgeist, and I want to fight it. I want to read long form articles, books and listen to these great podcasts, but the number of hours in my day don't seem to allow it. Do people set aside time? Am I just inherently bad at managing my time?
- selectodude 10y ago
  Rogan's podcast is absolutely perfect background listening.
- bluedino 10y ago
  >> Joe Rogan often on the 3 hour mark. That's how long most morning radio shows are.
- chadgeidel 10y ago
  I listen to podcasts for at least 10 hours per week and I probably manage to listen to 20 hours of podcasts in that time. Most podcasts I listen to can be sped up to about 1.3x speed with no obvious loss in quality. Additionally I use a podcast app [1] that "removes audio gaps" which basically chops out "pauses" and "no sound" areas of the podcast. [1] https://overcast.fm/ https://overcast.fm/
- throwanem 10y ago
  I also use Overcast, whose "smart speed" feature is very good. As far as finding time goes, I spend about 90 minutes a day commuting by foot and light rail, which combined with a cheap Bluetooth earbud (check Amazon) makes for very reasonable listening time. Perhaps something similar would work with your daily routine.
- serg_chernata 10y ago
  While driving; daily commute :)
btreesOfSpring 10y ago
> someone mentioned that if you think of our digestive system as a tube connecting two holes in the body then everything inside of our stomach is external. For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure this was said somewhere in the Chris Kresser, Joe Rogan Experience podcast episode #842.[0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_2vNj8pshY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_2vNj8pshY
kale 10y ago
Mathematically, "inside" our stomachs and intestines are "outside" our body. They are also outside of our body by looking at epithelial tissue, which has an inside/outside orientation.
munificent 10y ago
Topologically speaking, a human is a torus. Your digestive system is the hole in the doughnut. Interestingly, this means in a two-dimensional world, an organism couldn't have a similar structure, since the digestive system would completely separate the animal into two halves.
- Govannon 10y ago
  Not to be obtuse, but wouldn't what is basically an anthropomorphic doughnut be fine in two dimensions? Or do you just mean that that would not likely be the digestive tract of such a thing?
  - Vraxx 10y ago
    But you can't have a doughnut in two dimensions either, the two sides would have to be separated by the hole or else it's not really a doughnut, it's just a circle without a digestive system.
- billmalarky 10y ago
  Futurama had a fun episode that dealt with this. https://theinfosphere.org/2-D_Blacktop https://theinfosphere.org/2-D_Blacktop
- apr 10y ago
  Where would you place the nostrils?
  - munificent 10y ago
    Assuming we can ignore your septum and the roof of your mouth, your respiratory system is basically just an indentation in your head. From a topology perspective, it doesn't really exist. Your lungs are on the outside.
    - apr 10y ago
      But that's the thing, you cannot ignore those parts in topology. Even if they look small compared to the rest of the body.

drvdevd 10y ago

Reading the overview of this study - am I incorrect in thinking "correlation" not "causation" wrt the particular species of fungi (Candida tropicalis) and the biofilm produced being a key factor?

andrewflnr 10y ago
I don't know, but "lockstep" is a pretty darn strong correlation, with a solid hypothesis for a causative mechanism. I'll wait to see if the treatments actually work, but as someone with a friend who suffered from this, I'm excited.
driverdan 10y ago
You're correct. The linked story is PR and overstates the findings. As you can see by the researchers' statements they are far more cautious at stating causation.
HillaryBriss 10y ago
I couldn't find an ungated copy, but this is in the abstract: The abundance of the fungus Candida tropicalis was significantly higher in CD than in NCDR (P = 0.003) samples and positively correlated with levels of anti-Saccharomyces cerevisiae antibodies (ASCA). The abundance of C. tropicalis was positively correlated with S. marcescens and E. coli, suggesting that these organisms interact in the gut. All we know about correlation level from this is r > 0. More here: http://mbio.asm.org/content/7/5/e01250-16 http://mbio.asm.org/content/7/5/e01250-16

M_Grey 10y ago

My college roommate had Crohn's and it was... brutal just to see what it did to him. I remember spending some time in our dorm room helping him get some Ensure down one time, and he told me how scared he was of ending up in a wheelchair with a colostomy and so on.

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Broken_Hippo 10y ago
I worked with a young guy that suddenly found out he had it. He started feeling ill, then pain, and wound up in the hospital for some time. He didn't know he had it: I know for a while he wound up with a colostomy bag as his colon healed, and was looking at a lifetime of restricted eating and other such things. To make matters worse, his long-term girlfriend/fiance left him while he was in the hospital. I wish I knew what happened to him. He wound up moving out of state to stay with his parents as he got better, and basically cut most folks out of his life at that time.
- M_Grey 10y ago
  A somewhat similar end result with my college roommate... he move home to be with family and his world seemed to shrink. We lost touch as well.

jobu 10y ago

test-tube research by the Ghannoum-led team found that the three work together (with the E. coli cells fusing to the [Candida tropicalis] cells and S. marcescens forming a bridge connecting the microbes) to produce a biofilm -- a thin, slimy layer of microorganisms found in the body that adheres to, among other sites, a portion of the intestines -- which can prompt inflammation that results in the symptoms of Crohn's disease. That seems like a huge find. Biofilms can be very hardy and difficult to break down. I wonder what a treatment for something like this would be.

abledon 10y ago
A traditional mixture could consist of pau d'arco, wormwood, black walnut bark, clove, and garlic. This is used often in Native-American/Indian/Chinese-Medicine.
- QuickQuestion23 10y ago
  Can you share where you came by this information? I've got a relative with Crohn's.
  - trhway 10y ago
    man, i'm not a doctor, and i dealt only with smaller issue - candida overgrowth - and thus it may be related, if there is any relation at all (again i'm not a doctor), only as long as candida is related to Crohn's. So take it as a personal anonymous anecdote you read on Internet :) For candida overgrowth for me there were 2 parts - dietary changes and antifungals. Dietary changes. While being a heavy consumer of breads and pastries, i stopped eating white bread and similar yeast and sugar rich stuff from the stores. Found a good Russian and German bread instead, and sometimes enjoy their pastries. And whole wheat bagels. Gives me that carbohydrate fix. Several years ago, for moral reasons, i stopped eating pork, lamb and beef, and accidentally it helped too as the US beef seems to be a stuff that candida likes, at least it was liking it in my case. And also i did a bunch of other small changes in those general directions, increasing greens/veggies consumption and in general similar to what the other poster says about "good" and "bad" foods/drinks (except for coffee, still drink it though it is more neutral than "good" or may be even a bit toward "bad" for me). Also based on my experience, in particular with letting go of heavy meats and eating more greens/veggies, i believe the other guy who mentioned veganism though myself i haven't been able to make such big of jump. Antifungals. I didn't went medical antifungals as they are heavy on liver and the reported results from various Internet accounts aren't better than natural antifungals. There are a lot of natural antifungals, and it is more about what works for you personally. I tried apple cider vinegar, garlic, virgin coconut oil, ginger. All of them work to a good degree, initially better, after some time the fungi seems to adapt somewhat. The mix of those natural antifungals seems to work the best. I didn't really liked the coconut oil. So i ended up with daily regiment of double dose of garlic pills (i like the real garlic, yet the smell is an issue at home and work), several cups of ginger tea during the day at work, and 2 table spoons of apple cider vinegar 2 times a day (of course diluted in a cup of water or just used as a dressing for a large cucumber/tomato/greens/etc. salad. Also that dose is a result of my personal experience, i started with 1 or 2 table spoons per cup of water 3-4 times a day, it worked for me, yet dosing down and adding ginger and garlic instead worked even better, and one would want to be easy on vinegar). Frequently instead of the diluted vinegar i drink Kevita - apple juice with the apple cider vinegar with ginger with probiotic - works better than the equivalent volume of diluted vinegar alone, in particular because probiotic is extremely important in dealing with candida. One of the main things that i learned - it took me couple of months to work out the regiment once i set out on fixing the issue - is that it is very individualized and require some careful experimentation and observation.

nickpsecurity 10y ago

This is good news. I like how they identified a precise mechanism that might contribute to it. Maybe eliminating at least one of these three in the body might knock out or reduce the condition. Depends on if other stuff is involved.

kale 10y ago
Biofilms are nasty stuff. I did part of my master's thesis on them. They group together and communicate with each other (with electrical grids, according to Dr. Costerton, one of the forefront researchers of biofilms before he passed away). Some species use the film to coordinate a certain percentage of bugs stay in a "dormant" state, so they won't intake an antibiotic and die. For artificial joints like a hip and a knee joint, you have a lot of exposed materials like titanium, stainless steel, or medical polymer, so it doesn't have an immune system. Getting a biofilm infection forming on an artificial joint sometimes means taking the implant out, even if it's working fine. So biofilms are a tough problem. They're far more sinister than conventional bacterial colonies. Since this is in the digestive tract, I wonder if some type of detergent can be found that simply dissolves the film matrix, washing away the bacteria and fungi.
- technofiend 10y ago
  I had one form in my mouth after overexposure to an antifungal. It has resisted several rounds of antibiotics including Cipro. Nasty stuff. As far as I know it's unique to me, so if you know any grad students who want a mouth swab let me know.
- HillaryBriss 10y ago
  That's really interesting. I haven't learned about the biofilm aspect of this disease before. And, I guess the biofilm in this case is especially tough. From the abstract: The mass and thickness of triple-species (C. tropicalis plus S. marcescens plus E. coli) biofilm were significantly greater than those of single- and double-species biofilms. From: http://mbio.asm.org/content/7/5/e01250-16 http://mbio.asm.org/content/7/5/e01250-16
throwanem 10y ago

tylorr 10y ago

I wonder if this finding could help with ulcerative colitis as well

dmix 10y ago
Wondering the same thing, from my understanding UC is a variation of Chrons. Although I've personally found it pretty easy to manage after my initially attack in my early 20s. But I've heard Chrons is different and treatment is much more diet-based. Whereas with Colitis there doesn't seem to be a connection to nutrition (yet).
- HillRat 10y ago
  Crohn's is best understood as a collection of symptoms than an actual diagnosis, because -- this article being a case in point -- the underlying etiology isn't understood. For example, treatments that work on Crohn's patients in Japan don't work on US patients, indicating that the diagnosis is covering multiple disorders.
  - dmix 10y ago
    Interesting. I believe HIV has a similar issue? Where a weakened immune system causes a bunch of other illnesses and cancers. The doctors told me UC is the immune system overreacting and damaging the colon. So it's still possible it's correlated to the bodies microbiome. But as you mentioned it could be very person/ethnic-specific.
  - HillaryBriss 10y ago
    Interesting note about treatment working in Japan but not US. Do you have any more details about that? Thanks.
    - HillRat 10y ago
      The gold standard protocol in Japan has traditionally been exclusive enteral nutrition, but Crohn's in western countries has generally been refractory in studies. Japanese remission rates are reported in the 70-90% range, so it's a pretty significant finding. The Royston Vasey Journal of Culinary Medicine also had some intriguing results from a meat-based therapeutic diet, but the control population disappeared before conclusive results could be drawn.

eth0up 10y ago

Perhaps a (key?) factor in Alzheimer's too. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24614898 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24614898 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/26/health/alzheimers-disease-infection.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/26/health/alzheimers-disease-...

hospes 10y ago

"Furthermore, we found strong similarities in what may be called the 'gut profiles' of the Crohn's-affected families, which were strikingly different from the Crohn's-free families." It seems that fecal transplant (or pills based on them) can alter/fix gut profiles[1]. I wonder if someone tried fecal transplant to cure Cron's disease. [1] https://youtu.be/e_dF1N-Ckbw?t=1m44s https://youtu.be/e_dF1N-Ckbw?t=1m44s Edit: It seems this has been tried and pretty successful[2]. "A recent publication in the journal Inflammatory Bowel Diseases titled, “Fecal Microbial Transplant Effect on Clinical Outcomes and Fecal Microbiome in Active Crohn’s Disease,” reports seven of nine patients with Crohn’s disease were effectively treated using FMT in a Seattle Children’s research study." [2] http://pulse.seattlechildrens.org/study-suggests-fecal-transplant-could-be-effective-treatment-for-crohns-disease/ http://pulse.seattlechildrens.org/study-suggests-fecal-trans...

redtuesday 10y ago
If I remember correctly there was another study a few years back in europe (by Prof Raedler?) which was not as effective. Will try to dig it up tomorrow, I'm too sleepy right now.
- redtuesday 10y ago
  My memory has failed me. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4209544/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4209544/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3974513/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3974513/

dmix 10y ago

I read in another article that Fungus has been neglected in medical pathology research: > As of November 2015, only 269 of more than 6,000 Web of Science search results for the term “microbiome” even mention “fungus,” and the scientific search engine returns only 55 papers pertaining to the “mycobiome.” > Despite this lack of attention, a handful of recent studies point to the importance of our commensal fungal inhabitants as critical players in human health and disease. http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/45153/title/The-Mycobiome/ http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/45153/... Hopefully this type of research will help with a large variety of illnesses.

matchagaucho 10y ago

In my experience Crohn's bacteria, and now apparently fungi, love to feed on processed sugars and dairy products. To stay in remission, I focus on diet and exercise, and deny the bacteria the fuel they require (at least, that's my theory). Big pharma has largely focused on alleviating the inflammatory symptoms of auto-immune response. Treating the symptoms and not the cause unfortunately allows the vicious cycle to continue. I hope discoveries like this will encourage more Medical Professionals to pursue preemptive dietary, naturopathic, and lifestyle remedies for managing Crohn's. However, these remedies are not profitable, so I'm not optimistic :-(

fosco 10y ago
would love to hear more about your experiences and how your diet influences 'good' and 'bad' choices to stay in remission or go into in the first place.
- matchagaucho 10y ago
  I wish there were more "absolute" rules. There are so many dietary exceptions. Here are a few I live by to manage Crohn's. Water: Probably the #1 most important thing for Crohn's patients to manage is water consumption. Bottled water whenever possible. More specifically, the more alkaline the better. Tap water, unless you live in the mountains, is commonly bad on the digestive tract. Fried food: Generally "bad", but food fried with certain oils seems to be okay. The oil needs to be fresh. Fried food from fast food chains is always "bad". Sugars: Complex sugars are "bad". Monosaccharide sugars, found in fruits or honey, are okay. Vegetables: "Good" when steamed. But undigested raw veggies increases risk of triggering an auto-immune response. I eat small salads... ideally chef salads with some protein (ham/bacon/turkey). Fruits: Similar to veggies, only small portions. Don't let roughage linger in digestive system too long. Dark Chocolate: 80%+ cocoa in moderation tends to be okay. The endorphin rush is a plus and a good substitute for coffee. Popcorn: Definitely off limits. Auto-immune response triggers when the body detects undigested kernels. Dairy: Odd mix. Milk is extremely "bad". Won't even touch it. So is milk chocolate. Eggs are okay if used in cooking, but I avoid eating plain eggs for breakfast. Butter and many gourmet cheeses are fine (processed cheese is "bad"). Coffee: I drink a lot of coffee. Probably too much. The water, beans, and preparation process all contribute to coffee being "good" for Crohn's. Coffee becomes "bad" if there are any additives, such as dairy or sugar. Not even dairy substitutes, like soy, can be added. Meats: Okay in moderation, but lately I've been cutting back on red meats after learning more about increased risk of colon cancer in Crohn's patients. High quality beef burgers and fish are common staples. Alcohol: I abstained from drinking for many years when first diagnosed with Crohn's, but was pleasantly surprised to discover that I could introduce many "top shelf" brands in moderation without any real symptoms. I've learned a lot about the distillation process of wines and spirits as a result. There are such things as "good" and "bad" alcohol. Craft Beer: Similar to above, there are "good" and "bad" beer yeasts and fermentation processes. It's very hit or miss, but when I discover a craft beer that "works" with my digestive system, I stick with it. Lagunitas is an example of a beer that happens to be "good" with my gut bacteria.

just_a_guy_101 10y ago

Maybe we can finally begin to take a closer look at naturopathic remedies. The key to killing fungus in humans is to a) deny their fuel source through diet and b) strengthen the human system by proper carb/fat/protein ratio, essential oils, and healthy fats (omega 3/6/9, medium-chain saturated fats, etc).

blacksmith_tb 10y ago
That might be an approach, though it would be helpful to see citations (not that improving diet is a bad idea in general). There are also drugs like Lufenuron [1] which is a chitin synthase inhibitor (fungi make their cell walls from chitin, while mammals don't synthesize chitin at all). 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufenuron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufenuron
pjlegato 10y ago
To the extent that naturopathic remedies actually work, that fact is easily demonstrable through the scientific method, and they become known as just "remedies" rather than "naturopathic remedies."

calinet6 10y ago

I'm so happy to see the increase in gut microbiome research lately, as someone suffering from an immune-related colitis. There's very clearly a correlation with anti-microbial and microbe-influecing things (pepto bismol, herbal antimicrobial supplements, and probiotics) and my general well being, but let's just say it's very difficult to get specialists to focus on anything other than treating symptoms. The microbiome matters a whole lot, and it's starting to become clear how. These are great developments and I hope to see the trend continue.

mynegation 10y ago

Gut microbiome seems to be linked to many diseases. My knowledge in biology and medicine is next to zero, but I was wondering if the following would be a feasible strategy: * collect many samples from people with various symptoms * do metagenomic sequencing on these samples to find what species are present in which samples * machine learn the s--t out of this to find associations/correlations * ...um, profit? What would be the main problem on this way? Cost? Reliability of sequencing? Correlation not implying causation? Me talking nonsense? This finding, from what I understand, connected Crohn to the presense of three species working together to form a microfilm. Would not that be something to be found with the method like this?

hanklazard 10y ago
You'd also want to analyze the genomes of each individual from which the samples were taken, particularly for immune factors. While no one has figured out exactly why specific gene variants such as HLA-b27 seem to be implicated in a number of autoimmune diseases, the associations are clearly there.

themodernlife 10y ago

Reminds me of this article: http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/07/how-a-guy-from-a-montana-trailer-park-upturned-150-years-of-biology/491702/ http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/07/how-a-guy... Fungi play an interesting role in these systems.