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I am a hacker at heart, and I believe there are definitely some shady dealings with government and industry lobbyists, however, I like to look at things on both

by eggy 10y ago

I am a hacker at heart, and I believe there are definitely some shady dealings with government and industry lobbyists, however, I like to look at things on both sides, since there is always another side. Truth is if it was more than one hacker in this collective making the 'Epipencil' they must have designed, procured materials, fabricated and did this all in less than an hour to say $30, and they would have had to do all of that in less than an hour to meet minimum wage requirements. This does NOT speak to QA/QC, testing, insurance, FDA approval, legal costs or even their hacker lab overhead in equipment and energy to make one, let alone hundreds of thousands of these potentially life-saving products. My guess is that the $150 per Epipen is close to what you need to fulfill all of the above and then some requirements. Far from the $300 or more in pen price hikes, so it was good they did this as an exercise for putting Mylan and government in the spotlight. Bravo, really! My belief is that it is not solely big bad corporations, but big bad government AND big bad corporations. Just look at the moral integrity of our two current POTUS candidates. I am trying to become more financially literate in my old age, and I am trying to teach my children likewise, since financial illiteracy is a deterrent to poor people improving their lives, or hackers making a worthwhile dollar in conjunction with learning and exploration. I tell my kids to think twice when they reactively say or answer: "ASAP" - when is that? Point to a date on the calendar; "It will take 5 min." - It never takes just a minute or five; "It only cost $8 for the materials." - How much is your time worth? Learning is a benefit that cannot be quantified too easily, but for other matters, you need to value your time.

lexicality 10y ago
The original manufacturers charged ~$60, the $300/$150 price changes were from Mylar who bought the rights to sell the fully developed and regulated device.
ZenoArrow 10y ago
You're getting too tied up into the specifics. I don't think you need to believe that the price of an Epipen should be $30 to see the point about price gouging. If you really wanted a better estimate of costs, you should look at costs around wages, etc... as you indicate, as well as the cost reduction that comes from improved manufacturing processes. The central issue though is not about the specific price, it's about looking at the point when profit evolves into price gouging. It's not something that can be quantified precisely, but it's fairly clear that we're far from an 'optimised' price for this product, and we'll probably only get to that price with effective competition.
- eggy 10y ago
  No, I actually agreed with the gist of the article. And I do think the group has brought a greedy company to task. I was speaking to financial illiteracy, and perhaps I didn't communicate it too well. I know costing well, and I even had a truly innovative, potential Medicaid device to aid blind people in walking unassisted by canes, or canines way back in 1995. I am not sure how cheap an Epipen can be made at a sufficient profit for a company to either take it on as their only product, or as a horizontal or vertical market offshoot of their existing business without looking at the numbers. I strongly suspect it is far from $30 if it is to be made and sold at sufficient profit and not charity work, or a device of the Theranos/Elizabeth Holmes kind. I was pointing at the over-simplified, short title as possibly another misleading example of what things truly cost to make to have a final price at $60 or $150 when there is more involved than cost of materials whether bought in quantity for a prototype or discounted in bulk. Did any of the lines at the bottom of my post ring with you? I only ask, since I am an experienced senior manager with a very eclectic skill set, and I have heard them from the young to the old and experienced, and I am still amazed when I hear them.
  - ZenoArrow 10y ago
    Ah, fair enough, my misunderstanding. As for your points about people misunderstanding costs, I've no doubt it happens sometimes.

by eggy 10y ago

lexicality 10y ago

The original manufacturers charged ~$60, the $300/$150 price changes were from Mylar who bought the rights to sell the fully developed and regulated device.

ZenoArrow 10y ago

You're getting too tied up into the specifics. I don't think you need to believe that the price of an Epipen should be $30 to see the point about price gouging. If you really wanted a better estimate of costs, you should look at costs around wages, etc... as you indicate, as well as the cost reduction that comes from improved manufacturing processes. The central issue though is not about the specific price, it's about looking at the point when profit evolves into price gouging. It's not something that can be quantified precisely, but it's fairly clear that we're far from an 'optimised' price for this product, and we'll probably only get to that price with effective competition.

eggy 10y ago
No, I actually agreed with the gist of the article. And I do think the group has brought a greedy company to task. I was speaking to financial illiteracy, and perhaps I didn't communicate it too well. I know costing well, and I even had a truly innovative, potential Medicaid device to aid blind people in walking unassisted by canes, or canines way back in 1995. I am not sure how cheap an Epipen can be made at a sufficient profit for a company to either take it on as their only product, or as a horizontal or vertical market offshoot of their existing business without looking at the numbers. I strongly suspect it is far from $30 if it is to be made and sold at sufficient profit and not charity work, or a device of the Theranos/Elizabeth Holmes kind. I was pointing at the over-simplified, short title as possibly another misleading example of what things truly cost to make to have a final price at $60 or $150 when there is more involved than cost of materials whether bought in quantity for a prototype or discounted in bulk. Did any of the lines at the bottom of my post ring with you? I only ask, since I am an experienced senior manager with a very eclectic skill set, and I have heard them from the young to the old and experienced, and I am still amazed when I hear them.
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  Ah, fair enough, my misunderstanding. As for your points about people misunderstanding costs, I've no doubt it happens sometimes.