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I feel like a lot of the commenters here didn't read the article. > Four Thieves Vinegar have created and uploaded the plans for the simple version, called the
by justinlardinois 10y ago
I feel like a lot of the commenters here didn't read the article.
> Four Thieves Vinegar have created and uploaded the plans for the simple version, called the Epipencil. Also spring loaded, the parts are gathered over the counter. The epinephrine will still need to be acquired with a prescription.
This still involves an FDA-approved drug obtained through normal channels; the DIY part is the injector.
Creating DIY medical drugs would certainly be something to be concerned about, but I don't see the problem with DIY medical tools.
- makmanalp 10y ago> but I don't see the problem with DIY medical tools A lot of thought goes into achieving dosage that is reliably correct and consistent between applications, not to mention when applied by non-pros. Not to say that I know whether this design achieves this, but administering the drug properly seems almost as important as the drug itself. And you don't f with severe allergic reactions.
- bayesian_horse 10y agoI generally agree that there is more to it than the actual drug, but "epipens" aren't exactly dosing by weight.
- jacobwcarlson 10y ago"Sola dosis facit venenum": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dose_makes_the_poison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dose_makes_the_poison
- enoch_r 10y ago> Creating DIY medical drugs would certainly be something to be concerned about, but I don't see the problem with DIY medical tools. The FDA does see a problem, though, which is why other companies have had a huge amount of difficulty trying to bring competitors to the epipen to market (in the US).
- justinlardinois 10y agoOf course, but there's a huge difference between making things for your own use and making them to sell to others, especially in this context.
- ptaipale 10y agoI can see how a lot of things could go wrong with things like a DIY X-ray machine or CAT scanner. And also simpler things like infusion dosage etc. That stuff does go through FDA approval in the US, right? It's not all for nothing.
- bayesian_horse 10y agoI've heard that law enforcement uses X-ray machines to look at vehicles on the road, without even asking or informing the drivers they are dosing with radiation. Funny enough, these devices don't need FDA approval, since they aren't medical devices, and the operators don't need to know anything about radiation effects on Humans...
- ptaipale 10y agoThose X-ray machines are not DIY. They are specifically designed for the purpose. And FDA requires reporting from manufacturers. http://www.fda.gov/Radiation-EmittingProducts/RadiationEmittingProductsandProcedures/SecuritySystems/ucm227201.htm http://www.fda.gov/Radiation-EmittingProducts/RadiationEmitt...
- lostlogin 10y agoSelf reporting. Excuse my scepticism, it doesn't have a great track record. Additionally, the users are not exactly experts on radiation safety or knowledgable about radiation dosage, and I don't see how manufacturer reporting can cover what happens in the field.
- CamperBob2 10y agoEveryone from dental hygienists to radiologists must undergo health physics training before being allowed to use an X-ray machine on human subjects. Everyone, that is, but law enforcement. Thanks, FDA. Good job.
- gohrt 10y agoBecause the law enforcement devices emit such a tiny rate of dose that it is impossible to harm someone while using it. "A person would have to be screened more than a thousand times in one year in order to exceed the annual radiation dose limit"
- snowwrestler 10y agoThe problem is that if an auto-injector is truly needed (onset of anaphylaxis), there may not be much time to futz around with it, if it doesn't work properly. The auto-injector apparatus is not regulated because it is dangerous; it is regulated because a failure to operate would be dangerous. It is regulated for reliability. The hacker/maker ethos is awesome and drives a lot of innovation in our society, but sometimes there is also a need for careful engineering and rigorous testing.
- BurningFrog 10y agoRight, but something 90% effective that you can afford will save a lot more lives than the 100% effective version you can't.
- abraae 10y agoWell put. I've got a heart issue going on and I've had some fascinating results from capturing my heart rate on a consumer grade chest band monitor, then uploading it to influxdb and viewing it with grafana. Total outlay a couple of hundred bucks. Invaluable to me in tracking what's going on with my heart. Yet that whole stack would never be approved by... Anyone!
- gravypod 10y agoYou should open source it. Would be cool to see how you're doing data vis for this.
- balls187 10y ago> Right, but something 90% effective that you can afford will save a lot more lives than the 100% effective version you can't. What is the cross section of america can carefully construct a DYI Epi-Pen, but can't afford the actual Epi-Pen?
- TeMPOraL 10y agoI guess it may be large. Many people have more discretionary free time than money. I surely had when I was a student; I could afford the $50 DIY contraption and assemble it myself, but no way in hell I could find a spare $300.
- tzs 10y ago> Creating DIY medical drugs would certainly be something to be concerned about, but I don't see the problem with DIY medical tools. There was a non-EpiPen epinephrine injector on the market in the US up until last year, the Auvi-Q by Sanofi, that was taken off the market because there were problems getting accurate and consistent dosing. Sanofi is the fifth largest pharmaceutical company measured by prescription drug sales. They have annual revenue of $37 billion, and 112000 employees. The fact that Sanofi was not able to get the mechanical aspects of this thing right leads me to suspect that these kind of things are not as easy to make as it might at first seem.
- AstralStorm 10y agoIf it's funny that Sanofi manages to do it for insulin but not epinephrine. Perhaps they shouldn't be using a spring loaded mechanism...
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