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Maybe I'm biased because I've done some intelligent agent work when I was back at Microsoft, but I really like how Allo handled this. They let the user decide w

by jjcm 10y ago

Maybe I'm biased because I've done some intelligent agent work when I was back at Microsoft, but I really like how Allo handled this. They let the user decide whether or not they want convenience, or strict privacy. This is how it should be - up to the user. Some people want the convenience of having their messages be stored in the cloud and helper bots to add relevant content to the mix, some people want a reduced experience but with the reward of privacy.

heheocoenev 10y ago
Disagree. The average user is not savvy enough to make this call. Secure end-to-end so I can have secure conversations with less technical people, and know we are both safe. It only take one party to escrow the logs to the server and all those conversations are no longer private. E2E||GTFO
- ak4g 10y ago
  Uh, no. Data loss for your end-users as a default behavior is unforgivable. The impetus is on people who think it's OK to irretrievably lose access to their freaking data when their phone battery explodes to set that up. For myself, and for Joe P. Random, losing my data without my having explicitly (and again) decided to take that risk is what directly precedes a decision to no longer use any Google products, full stop.
  - pdkl95 10y ago
    People already assume their voice conversations are (usually) ephemeral. As long as it is explained properly, an ephemeral text chat can not only be acceptable, it may also be a feature. More importantly, why are you pretending that end-to-end encryption implies an irretrievable loss of data? If desired, backups can be made locally or to another local device such some type of LAN-only network storage or a USB storage device.
    - r00fus 10y ago
      Exactly. Snapchat = ephemeral video sharing/chat. Why is it so big?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- matt_wulfeck 10y ago
  Exactly, and this is precisely why it's E2E by default with iMessage. One company makes money off of your information, the other makes money off your hardware.
- brainfire 10y ago
  That is how Allo works.
sigmar 10y ago
I'm big into privacy and that actually makes some sense to me. Though I'm a little concerned that if E2E isn't the default, it will be buried in the settings and most users won't ever think to use it.
codedokode 10y ago
> helper bots to add relevant content to the mix, Is not that called an advertisement?
- sigmar 10y ago
  Have you used bots in Allo or telegram or facebook messenger or discord or slack? They can be very helpful.
  - falcolas 10y ago
    I've often found the contrary - they add a lot of noise into the signal. For example, the gify bot encourages people to post response gifs to response gifs, creating pages of nothing but pure crap, making content harder to find than the proverbial needle in a haystack. I don't need web pages expanded in-place, it pushes content off screen. I don't want CI/Jira/Pagerduty spam constantly dinging for my attention. I don't want random gifs. I don't want YouTube videos expanded and started automatically. Maybe there's a good bot out there, but I haven't seen one yet.

by jjcm 10y ago

heheocoenev 10y ago

Disagree. The average user is not savvy enough to make this call. Secure end-to-end so I can have secure conversations with less technical people, and know we are both safe. It only take one party to escrow the logs to the server and all those conversations are no longer private. E2E||GTFO

ak4g 10y ago
Uh, no. Data loss for your end-users as a default behavior is unforgivable. The impetus is on people who think it's OK to irretrievably lose access to their freaking data when their phone battery explodes to set that up. For myself, and for Joe P. Random, losing my data without my having explicitly (and again) decided to take that risk is what directly precedes a decision to no longer use any Google products, full stop.
- pdkl95 10y ago
  People already assume their voice conversations are (usually) ephemeral. As long as it is explained properly, an ephemeral text chat can not only be acceptable, it may also be a feature. More importantly, why are you pretending that end-to-end encryption implies an irretrievable loss of data? If desired, backups can be made locally or to another local device such some type of LAN-only network storage or a USB storage device.
  - r00fus 10y ago
    Exactly. Snapchat = ephemeral video sharing/chat. Why is it so big?
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
matt_wulfeck 10y ago
Exactly, and this is precisely why it's E2E by default with iMessage. One company makes money off of your information, the other makes money off your hardware.
brainfire 10y ago
That is how Allo works.

sigmar 10y ago

I'm big into privacy and that actually makes some sense to me. Though I'm a little concerned that if E2E isn't the default, it will be buried in the settings and most users won't ever think to use it.

codedokode 10y ago

> helper bots to add relevant content to the mix, Is not that called an advertisement?

sigmar 10y ago
Have you used bots in Allo or telegram or facebook messenger or discord or slack? They can be very helpful.
- falcolas 10y ago
  I've often found the contrary - they add a lot of noise into the signal. For example, the gify bot encourages people to post response gifs to response gifs, creating pages of nothing but pure crap, making content harder to find than the proverbial needle in a haystack. I don't need web pages expanded in-place, it pushes content off screen. I don't want CI/Jira/Pagerduty spam constantly dinging for my attention. I don't want random gifs. I don't want YouTube videos expanded and started automatically. Maybe there's a good bot out there, but I haven't seen one yet.