4 ms·

Yes, it is only this latest generation that takes things for granted. I wonder if he wakes up every morning utterly flabbergasted that his home is comfortably

by samd 17y ago

Yes, it is only this latest generation that takes things for granted. I wonder if he wakes up every morning utterly flabbergasted that his home is comfortably warm, he has clean running water, and wild animals haven't tried to kill him in the night. Somehow I doubt it.

stcredzero 17y ago
Spending a summer in Alaska can help give you an appreciation. I was there in 1992. Me before Alaska: "I'll never be a sell out." Me during Alaska: Covered in cold fish slime mixed with refrigerated seawater. Shivering my ass off shoveling crushed ice in the back of a refrigerated trailer. Sliding around on my belly in a tender boat hold with a gaff, wrangling 75 pound Halibut into a cargo net. Living in a tent on the beach, and going into town to make a phone call and pay $1.75 to take a shower. (Not an everyday occurrence!) Me after Alaska: "A nice cozy job in an climate controlled office? Sounds nice!" The guy who was my skipper for a very short time? He lived in the southwest near Dillingham and there were no roads near his house. He had no running water or electricity. To check his snail mail, he had to go down to the river, untie his boat and travel 2 miles downstream. (Not sure, but I think there were basically no roads anywhere.)
- yters 17y ago
  Yeah, no kidding. Grow up in a third world country. You'll realize what luxury you live in. Hungry? Drive down the street for delicious fastfood. Even the poorest among us have electricity, running water, tv, computer, internet, etc. Most I didn't have when growing up.
  - stcredzero 17y ago
    Dinesh D'Souza asked someone why they wanted to immigrate to the US. Answer: "I want to go to a place where the poor people are fat and own TVs and VCRs."
    - _delirium 17y ago
      If you ask immigrants who've lived in the U.S. ~10 years or so about the pros/cons of it, though, you get much more mixed answers. Some are still uniformly positive about how much better the U.S. is than where they came from, but many aren't. And sometimes it just seems sort of incomparable. My mom grew up in a rural village of about 30 families in Greece in the 1950s that had no electricity, running water, TVs, etc. She objectively realizes it was a "deprived" childhood by modern standards, but she doesn't subjectively remember it being bad at all. It's just what life was like: you got water from the well, and it was fine, because that's what everyone does, and there was no sense that you were a poor person for not having running water, because nobody had running water, not in your village or in the neighboring villages. And subjectively she even thinks some things were better, like the community and social support you get from a close-knit group of 30 families who all know each other / bake bread at the community oven together / etc. I doubt she would go back to that lifestyle today given the choice, but she doesn't have an "omg that sucked, I'm so glad I'm now in the U.S. in a suburban home" view of it either.
      - pw0ncakes 17y ago
        In most of the world, "middle class" means that you have a cushy job and don't have to do any housework-- a maid is assumed. It also means that you have enough financial security that, while you may have to work, you can work and move from one industry to another pretty much at your leisure. Being "middle class" is better in the Third World, but the comparison isn't fair because only 1-5% is called middle class over there, while 50% are considered middle class here. So that's actually a comparison of what we would consider upper-middle class in their societies against the upper working class in ours. No one who has to put off a vacation because he only gets 2 weeks annually would be considered middle class, except in the US, where we indulge in the fictional equation of "median" with "middle class". What you're talking about (I think) is the fact that a lot of people come to America expecting to be middle class, which implies a certain level of comfort. When they join the upper tier of the working class that is called "middle class" here, they're upset because of their dashed expectations. Being poor in America sucks but it kicks the pants off being poor in the Third World, at least in material terms. However, the poor in the US are almost always miserable (due to lack of advancement, a culture that equates poverty with failure, and boredom) whereas the poor in the Third World are not always miserable.
  - erlanger 17y ago
    > Even the poorest among us have electricity, running water, > tv, computer, internet, etc. Who could say such a thing when tens of thousands of Americans live in the streets? For many others who do have basic shelter, electricity and running water are not a sure thing, let alone digital entertainment.
    - philwelch 17y ago
      Poverty is definitely a part of homelessness, but homelessness is a way bigger problem than poverty alone. It's not just poverty that creates persistent homelessness in America, it's often some combination of poverty, mental illness, addiction, and adaptation to the homeless lifestyle. There was a story on here awhile ago about the last homeless man in Times Square--the city's social workers keep asking him day after day if he wants a place to sleep--they'll just give him one--and he always says no, he'd rather live on the street. That's an extreme case of adaptation, but other types of adaptation aren't necessarily conducive to living a normal life. One of my friends took in a homeless man for awhile and helped him look for work and the man ended up stealing from him, selling the loot, and living on the streets again. Apparently the guy goes back and forth between jail, the streets, and living with whoever will help him.

by samd 17y ago

stcredzero 17y ago

Spending a summer in Alaska can help give you an appreciation. I was there in 1992. Me before Alaska: "I'll never be a sell out." Me during Alaska: Covered in cold fish slime mixed with refrigerated seawater. Shivering my ass off shoveling crushed ice in the back of a refrigerated trailer. Sliding around on my belly in a tender boat hold with a gaff, wrangling 75 pound Halibut into a cargo net. Living in a tent on the beach, and going into town to make a phone call and pay $1.75 to take a shower. (Not an everyday occurrence!) Me after Alaska: "A nice cozy job in an climate controlled office? Sounds nice!" The guy who was my skipper for a very short time? He lived in the southwest near Dillingham and there were no roads near his house. He had no running water or electricity. To check his snail mail, he had to go down to the river, untie his boat and travel 2 miles downstream. (Not sure, but I think there were basically no roads anywhere.)

yters 17y ago
Yeah, no kidding. Grow up in a third world country. You'll realize what luxury you live in. Hungry? Drive down the street for delicious fastfood. Even the poorest among us have electricity, running water, tv, computer, internet, etc. Most I didn't have when growing up.
- stcredzero 17y ago
  Dinesh D'Souza asked someone why they wanted to immigrate to the US. Answer: "I want to go to a place where the poor people are fat and own TVs and VCRs."
  - _delirium 17y ago
    If you ask immigrants who've lived in the U.S. ~10 years or so about the pros/cons of it, though, you get much more mixed answers. Some are still uniformly positive about how much better the U.S. is than where they came from, but many aren't. And sometimes it just seems sort of incomparable. My mom grew up in a rural village of about 30 families in Greece in the 1950s that had no electricity, running water, TVs, etc. She objectively realizes it was a "deprived" childhood by modern standards, but she doesn't subjectively remember it being bad at all. It's just what life was like: you got water from the well, and it was fine, because that's what everyone does, and there was no sense that you were a poor person for not having running water, because nobody had running water, not in your village or in the neighboring villages. And subjectively she even thinks some things were better, like the community and social support you get from a close-knit group of 30 families who all know each other / bake bread at the community oven together / etc. I doubt she would go back to that lifestyle today given the choice, but she doesn't have an "omg that sucked, I'm so glad I'm now in the U.S. in a suburban home" view of it either.
    - pw0ncakes 17y ago
      In most of the world, "middle class" means that you have a cushy job and don't have to do any housework-- a maid is assumed. It also means that you have enough financial security that, while you may have to work, you can work and move from one industry to another pretty much at your leisure. Being "middle class" is better in the Third World, but the comparison isn't fair because only 1-5% is called middle class over there, while 50% are considered middle class here. So that's actually a comparison of what we would consider upper-middle class in their societies against the upper working class in ours. No one who has to put off a vacation because he only gets 2 weeks annually would be considered middle class, except in the US, where we indulge in the fictional equation of "median" with "middle class". What you're talking about (I think) is the fact that a lot of people come to America expecting to be middle class, which implies a certain level of comfort. When they join the upper tier of the working class that is called "middle class" here, they're upset because of their dashed expectations. Being poor in America sucks but it kicks the pants off being poor in the Third World, at least in material terms. However, the poor in the US are almost always miserable (due to lack of advancement, a culture that equates poverty with failure, and boredom) whereas the poor in the Third World are not always miserable.
- erlanger 17y ago
  > Even the poorest among us have electricity, running water, > tv, computer, internet, etc. Who could say such a thing when tens of thousands of Americans live in the streets? For many others who do have basic shelter, electricity and running water are not a sure thing, let alone digital entertainment.
  - philwelch 17y ago
    Poverty is definitely a part of homelessness, but homelessness is a way bigger problem than poverty alone. It's not just poverty that creates persistent homelessness in America, it's often some combination of poverty, mental illness, addiction, and adaptation to the homeless lifestyle. There was a story on here awhile ago about the last homeless man in Times Square--the city's social workers keep asking him day after day if he wants a place to sleep--they'll just give him one--and he always says no, he'd rather live on the street. That's an extreme case of adaptation, but other types of adaptation aren't necessarily conducive to living a normal life. One of my friends took in a homeless man for awhile and helped him look for work and the man ended up stealing from him, selling the loot, and living on the streets again. Apparently the guy goes back and forth between jail, the streets, and living with whoever will help him.