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Just because something was shittier in the past, doesn't excuse the present for still being shitty. Where did I say that Lenovo should change the default setti

Just because something was shittier in the past, doesn't excuse the present for still being shitty. Where did I say that Lenovo should change the default setting? To be clear, I'm perfectly fine with a default setting of RAID -- but right now, they also lock you out of changing it back to AHCI. What I think is reasonable is allowing users to change the setting back to AHCI (at their own risk, of course, as is the case with MOST settings in the BIOS). They should have done that all along, but instead, they artificially restricted it, locking us Linux users out by their own volition. Maybe they could even have two separate builds (using an #ifdef on their end), where Linux users can download the "unlocked version" much like some permissive phone manufacturers have done with rooting (to draw a somewhat weak analogy).

NetStrikeForce 10y ago
> Just because something was shittier in the past, doesn't excuse the present for still being shitty. You are right. No one's making excuses here :) > Where did I say that Lenovo should change the default setting? You didn't, I did. I was walking on Lenovo's shoes and asking myself "What's good for the business right now?". I was considering my options, so to speak. > What I think is reasonable is allowing users to change the setting back to AHCI (at their own risk, of course, as is the case with MOST settings in the BIOS). They should have done that all along, but instead, they artificially restricted it, locking us Linux users out by their own volition. Why is it reasonable? Does it bring more money to Lenovo shareholders? What happens when all the Internet forums are full of people blindly recommending to change to AHCI so you can use your Windows 10 vanilla ISO to reinstall? I tell you what happens: You end up with hundreds of support cases and laptops returned because they [underperfom|get too hot|have shitty battery] and non-returning customers. With the decision Lenovo made, they will have way less problems. Or so they thought! Maybe they were right, maybe they were wrong. > Maybe they could even have two separate builds (using an #ifdef on their end), where Linux users can download the "unlocked version" much like some permissive phone manufacturers have done with rooting (to draw a somewhat weak analogy). They could do that, but as I said in my previous comment this might not be as cheap as it sounds. If they were to provide the unlocked BIOS version "at your own risk", would you use it? And if it bricks your laptop, would you or someone else sue Lenovo? Those are the things at play here. (Note: I agree with you on most things here, just playing Devil's advocate)
- Hydraulix989 10y ago
  "What happens when all the Internet forums are full of people blindly recommending to change to AHCI so you can use your Windows 10 vanilla ISO to reinstall?" How is this harder than the current procedure which requires users to sideload custom RAID drivers from USB that support the RAID at install time? I can imagine the support calls coming from THAT. Oh, and this is the Windows experience that is affected (ostensibly for some marginal increase in battery life). "If they were to provide the unlocked BIOS version "at your own risk", would you use it? And if it bricks your laptop, would you or someone else sue Lenovo?" When I think of risk associated with setting a BIOS to AHCI mode? I don't think of nuclear explosions...
  - NetStrikeForce 10y ago
    > How is this harder than the current procedure which requires users to sideload custom RAID drivers from USB that support the RAID at install time? It's not harder: It degrades the overall experience while using the laptop (battery, temperature, performance). > I can imagine the support calls coming from THAT. > Oh, and this is the Windows experience that is affected. True, but I'm sure they plan on make money out of these calls. People will be more inclined to pay when "they" screwed up Windows than because "this piece of crap doesn't work well, even with Windows freshly installed". Again, this is a guess of Lenovo's thinking. > When I think of risk associated with setting a BIOS to AHCI mode? I don't think of nuclear explosions... I mean flashing a non-supported BIOS :)
    - Hydraulix989 10y ago
      "It's not harder: It degrades the overall experience while using the laptop (battery, temperature, performance)." Except these are baseless claims that haven't been supported by any data yet; in fact, one user that posted on the Lenovo Community forums compared the "performance" of single-drive RAID (oxymoron) vs. AHCI for NVMe SSDs, and it's more or less the same. "I mean flashing a non-supported BIOS :)" Right, so do I -- currently, users have been attaching DIY chip clips and flashing a user-modded hacked BIOS themselves (much like modding Playstation game consoles to break the region locking back in the 90s). Wouldn't it be better for these users to flash a Lenovo-supported BIOS instead? I guess that's what factors into your "bottom line" calculations -- the overhead of uploading a 30 second fix from engineering. EDIT: I really should have realized I have been getting trolled a bit sooner LOL

NetStrikeForce 10y ago

> Just because something was shittier in the past, doesn't excuse the present for still being shitty. You are right. No one's making excuses here :) > Where did I say that Lenovo should change the default setting? You didn't, I did. I was walking on Lenovo's shoes and asking myself "What's good for the business right now?". I was considering my options, so to speak. > What I think is reasonable is allowing users to change the setting back to AHCI (at their own risk, of course, as is the case with MOST settings in the BIOS). They should have done that all along, but instead, they artificially restricted it, locking us Linux users out by their own volition. Why is it reasonable? Does it bring more money to Lenovo shareholders? What happens when all the Internet forums are full of people blindly recommending to change to AHCI so you can use your Windows 10 vanilla ISO to reinstall? I tell you what happens: You end up with hundreds of support cases and laptops returned because they [underperfom|get too hot|have shitty battery] and non-returning customers. With the decision Lenovo made, they will have way less problems. Or so they thought! Maybe they were right, maybe they were wrong. > Maybe they could even have two separate builds (using an #ifdef on their end), where Linux users can download the "unlocked version" much like some permissive phone manufacturers have done with rooting (to draw a somewhat weak analogy). They could do that, but as I said in my previous comment this might not be as cheap as it sounds. If they were to provide the unlocked BIOS version "at your own risk", would you use it? And if it bricks your laptop, would you or someone else sue Lenovo? Those are the things at play here. (Note: I agree with you on most things here, just playing Devil's advocate)

Hydraulix989 10y ago
"What happens when all the Internet forums are full of people blindly recommending to change to AHCI so you can use your Windows 10 vanilla ISO to reinstall?" How is this harder than the current procedure which requires users to sideload custom RAID drivers from USB that support the RAID at install time? I can imagine the support calls coming from THAT. Oh, and this is the Windows experience that is affected (ostensibly for some marginal increase in battery life). "If they were to provide the unlocked BIOS version "at your own risk", would you use it? And if it bricks your laptop, would you or someone else sue Lenovo?" When I think of risk associated with setting a BIOS to AHCI mode? I don't think of nuclear explosions...
- NetStrikeForce 10y ago
  > How is this harder than the current procedure which requires users to sideload custom RAID drivers from USB that support the RAID at install time? It's not harder: It degrades the overall experience while using the laptop (battery, temperature, performance). > I can imagine the support calls coming from THAT. > Oh, and this is the Windows experience that is affected. True, but I'm sure they plan on make money out of these calls. People will be more inclined to pay when "they" screwed up Windows than because "this piece of crap doesn't work well, even with Windows freshly installed". Again, this is a guess of Lenovo's thinking. > When I think of risk associated with setting a BIOS to AHCI mode? I don't think of nuclear explosions... I mean flashing a non-supported BIOS :)
  - Hydraulix989 10y ago
    "It's not harder: It degrades the overall experience while using the laptop (battery, temperature, performance)." Except these are baseless claims that haven't been supported by any data yet; in fact, one user that posted on the Lenovo Community forums compared the "performance" of single-drive RAID (oxymoron) vs. AHCI for NVMe SSDs, and it's more or less the same. "I mean flashing a non-supported BIOS :)" Right, so do I -- currently, users have been attaching DIY chip clips and flashing a user-modded hacked BIOS themselves (much like modding Playstation game consoles to break the region locking back in the 90s). Wouldn't it be better for these users to flash a Lenovo-supported BIOS instead? I guess that's what factors into your "bottom line" calculations -- the overhead of uploading a 30 second fix from engineering. EDIT: I really should have realized I have been getting trolled a bit sooner LOL