5 ms·

Going to be a bit unpopular here, but what the hell. To be a great software developer you need to work on pet projects for yourself and for others. Some people

Going to be a bit unpopular here, but what the hell. To be a great software developer you need to work on pet projects for yourself and for others. Some people do the 9-to-5 and that's fine. But those are going to be your median developers. Not your great developers. Nothing wrong with that. Great software developers are great because they sharpen that edge for fun. They straight up love writing code. When you work on pet projects you research new tools, new ways of doing things, and broaden your horizons. You open source stuff, forcing you to write clean code with proper documentation. That _directly_ influences how you write code for your job. That knowledge applies in strange and unexpected ways. In my experience you end up using a lot of the new stuff you pulled in through your escapades. You want to be a great software developer? Write open source code. Read open source code.

traviswingo 10y ago
I second this. I learn a lot at my 9-5, but I learn much more building small side projects where I have to do every piece of it myself, rather than just my part and off-put it onto the next team. Additionally, I've learned more than I can credit from simply reading open-source project code. You'd be surprised what weird little tricks you'll find in there.
wlievens 10y ago
I find that on pet projects I almost never learn new tools. I tend to have an idea that I want to try out, and I use the tech I know to get there quickly. It feels a bit sad, I must admit.
- csallen 10y ago
  Interesting, I've had the exact opposite experience. When I'm working for someone else, I feel like I need to stick to the tools I know. But when I'm working on my own project, I have an itch to try out the latest and greatest thing, even if it's irresponsible to do so and will only slow me down.
falcolas 10y ago
You're perfectly capable of being a mediocre (or terrible) developer while writing code from the time you wake up to the time to go to bed. The way to actually get better (at anything) is to create a feedback loop and focus on the bits and pieces which matter. Ask a professional musician how they got better, and you won't hear them say "by playing the piano for 16 hours a day, every day". They'll say by doing focused practicing. And that can be done in anywhere between 2 and 6 hours a day. Even at your day job... You want to be a truly useful software developer? Expand your knowledge beyond software development by doing more than developing software.
- spinlock 10y ago
  yup. I worked at a place where they would constantly write code. lots and lots of shitty code that never should have been written. issues scaling postgres -> rewrite active record to use the latest nosql db. issues with that -> rewrite the app again. there's a difference between just writing lots of code and understanding what your doing. I like the approach of writing katas every day until you've really internalized the technique you're working on.
- dozzie 10y ago
  > The way to actually get better (at anything) is to create a feedback loop and focus on the bits and pieces which matter. > Ask a professional musician how they got better, and [...] they'll say by doing focused practicing. How does focused practicing look for programmer?
  - yread 10y ago
    Google brings up this: http://artists.pixelovely.com/focused-practice-an-exercise-for-real-improvement-in-33-days/ http://artists.pixelovely.com/focused-practice-an-exercise-f... Step 1: Identify what you’d like to be better at, and be specific. Step 2: Try to break this goal down into smaller goals. List them. Notice if one might interfere with the other goals if it isn’t tamed first. Choose the most foundational goal. Step 3: Commit to practicing that aspect of drawing 100 times. Each practice should take a minimum of 5 minutes. This is for drawing but it looks like it could be adopted for programming. EDIT: googling some more brings up this article https://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/practicing-programming https://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/practicing-program... EDIT2: even more googling finds more concrete focused practicing http://web.archive.org/web/20060316094755/http://blogs.pragprog.com/cgi-bin/pragdave.cgi/Practices/Kata http://web.archive.org/web/20060316094755/http://blogs.pragp...
caseysoftware 10y ago
Exactly. If you wanted to be a great musician, athlete, or whatever, you would practice when you're NOT performing. It's a combination of developing the muscle memory, experimenting with new ideas, learning from other people, teaching others, and replacing bad habits with good ones. There's no way to do that other than just doing it. If your priorities are elsewhere, no problem but realize that little differences (salary, skills, exposure) compound over time.
smcg 10y ago
"working extra hours at something will make you better than someone who doesn't work extra hours"... of course.
- sergiotapia 10y ago
  It's a secret so use wisely! Don't crash the market!
- Namrog84 10y ago
  I don't fully agree with this quote/statement. There is something to be said about proper rest and non work hours as your brain does it things. I'm sure most people here can attest to the anecdotal proof of having a difficult problem and leaving it. Then it suddenly coming to you some point later during non work. This also applies to developing skills. Not just problem solving.
- NetStrikeForce 10y ago
  I'm hoping you're being sarcastic, because in my little world that has never been true. My observations say the correlation is pretty much the other way around: You work more hours because you can't get the stuff done during your allotted time. You're not learning new stuff, you're doing the same you've been doing the previous 8 hours of that: Struggle. Of course there is brilliant people that just enjoy their work and stay longer every day; but staying longer is not the reason why they're brilliant. Being brilliant, specially on a trade that has a strong creative component, it's not something you can always train. Or at least not by repeating the same tasks over and over.
  - corobo 10y ago
    I think is this more "working extra hours at something" where something is "generic coding" rather than "a specific task I'm working on at work"
  - smcg 10y ago
    I think you misinterpreted my statement. My point was that working on side projects in your own time is the equivalent of working free overtime.
bendixso 10y ago
I'm not sure what would be unpopular about this. It's totally true. When you aren't charging a bazillion dollars an hour to write software, there's much less pressure to hit deadlines. And generally speaking most people perform better on cognitive tasks like programming and learning when they don't have a gun to the back of their head. If your employer is willing to subsidize your learning, count yourself extremely lucky. Most companies don't have the luxury to do that. They're pressed for time, so instead of having you learn the right way to do something, you tend to get pushed towards quick implementations that 'will do' for now. Even companies with the best intentions face this problem because their clients will set some arbitrary deadline that they have to stick to When you're on your own time, you can relax and explore the subject matter in depth. It's this process of exploration that will make you better. Just remember that it's a selfish world out there. Nobody cares if you're getting better as a programmer. If you want to get better, you have to invest in yourself.

traviswingo 10y ago

I second this. I learn a lot at my 9-5, but I learn much more building small side projects where I have to do every piece of it myself, rather than just my part and off-put it onto the next team. Additionally, I've learned more than I can credit from simply reading open-source project code. You'd be surprised what weird little tricks you'll find in there.

wlievens 10y ago

I find that on pet projects I almost never learn new tools. I tend to have an idea that I want to try out, and I use the tech I know to get there quickly. It feels a bit sad, I must admit.

csallen 10y ago
Interesting, I've had the exact opposite experience. When I'm working for someone else, I feel like I need to stick to the tools I know. But when I'm working on my own project, I have an itch to try out the latest and greatest thing, even if it's irresponsible to do so and will only slow me down.

falcolas 10y ago

You're perfectly capable of being a mediocre (or terrible) developer while writing code from the time you wake up to the time to go to bed. The way to actually get better (at anything) is to create a feedback loop and focus on the bits and pieces which matter. Ask a professional musician how they got better, and you won't hear them say "by playing the piano for 16 hours a day, every day". They'll say by doing focused practicing. And that can be done in anywhere between 2 and 6 hours a day. Even at your day job... You want to be a truly useful software developer? Expand your knowledge beyond software development by doing more than developing software.

spinlock 10y ago
yup. I worked at a place where they would constantly write code. lots and lots of shitty code that never should have been written. issues scaling postgres -> rewrite active record to use the latest nosql db. issues with that -> rewrite the app again. there's a difference between just writing lots of code and understanding what your doing. I like the approach of writing katas every day until you've really internalized the technique you're working on.
dozzie 10y ago
> The way to actually get better (at anything) is to create a feedback loop and focus on the bits and pieces which matter. > Ask a professional musician how they got better, and [...] they'll say by doing focused practicing. How does focused practicing look for programmer?
- yread 10y ago
  Google brings up this: http://artists.pixelovely.com/focused-practice-an-exercise-for-real-improvement-in-33-days/ http://artists.pixelovely.com/focused-practice-an-exercise-f... Step 1: Identify what you’d like to be better at, and be specific. Step 2: Try to break this goal down into smaller goals. List them. Notice if one might interfere with the other goals if it isn’t tamed first. Choose the most foundational goal. Step 3: Commit to practicing that aspect of drawing 100 times. Each practice should take a minimum of 5 minutes. This is for drawing but it looks like it could be adopted for programming. EDIT: googling some more brings up this article https://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/practicing-programming https://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/practicing-program... EDIT2: even more googling finds more concrete focused practicing http://web.archive.org/web/20060316094755/http://blogs.pragprog.com/cgi-bin/pragdave.cgi/Practices/Kata http://web.archive.org/web/20060316094755/http://blogs.pragp...

caseysoftware 10y ago

Exactly. If you wanted to be a great musician, athlete, or whatever, you would practice when you're NOT performing. It's a combination of developing the muscle memory, experimenting with new ideas, learning from other people, teaching others, and replacing bad habits with good ones. There's no way to do that other than just doing it. If your priorities are elsewhere, no problem but realize that little differences (salary, skills, exposure) compound over time.

smcg 10y ago

"working extra hours at something will make you better than someone who doesn't work extra hours"... of course.

sergiotapia 10y ago
It's a secret so use wisely! Don't crash the market!
Namrog84 10y ago
I don't fully agree with this quote/statement. There is something to be said about proper rest and non work hours as your brain does it things. I'm sure most people here can attest to the anecdotal proof of having a difficult problem and leaving it. Then it suddenly coming to you some point later during non work. This also applies to developing skills. Not just problem solving.
NetStrikeForce 10y ago
I'm hoping you're being sarcastic, because in my little world that has never been true. My observations say the correlation is pretty much the other way around: You work more hours because you can't get the stuff done during your allotted time. You're not learning new stuff, you're doing the same you've been doing the previous 8 hours of that: Struggle. Of course there is brilliant people that just enjoy their work and stay longer every day; but staying longer is not the reason why they're brilliant. Being brilliant, specially on a trade that has a strong creative component, it's not something you can always train. Or at least not by repeating the same tasks over and over.
- corobo 10y ago
  I think is this more "working extra hours at something" where something is "generic coding" rather than "a specific task I'm working on at work"
- smcg 10y ago
  I think you misinterpreted my statement. My point was that working on side projects in your own time is the equivalent of working free overtime.

bendixso 10y ago

I'm not sure what would be unpopular about this. It's totally true. When you aren't charging a bazillion dollars an hour to write software, there's much less pressure to hit deadlines. And generally speaking most people perform better on cognitive tasks like programming and learning when they don't have a gun to the back of their head. If your employer is willing to subsidize your learning, count yourself extremely lucky. Most companies don't have the luxury to do that. They're pressed for time, so instead of having you learn the right way to do something, you tend to get pushed towards quick implementations that 'will do' for now. Even companies with the best intentions face this problem because their clients will set some arbitrary deadline that they have to stick to When you're on your own time, you can relax and explore the subject matter in depth. It's this process of exploration that will make you better. Just remember that it's a selfish world out there. Nobody cares if you're getting better as a programmer. If you want to get better, you have to invest in yourself.