8 ms·

So since my bachelors degree is 'Bachelors of Science in Computer Science: Software Engineering', I shouldn't be able to call myself a software engineer?

sotojuan 10y ago
If you're in the US and want to be extremely pedantic/annoying, then no. ABET (the engineering accreditation society in the US), doesn't have "Software Engineering" as a valid discipline.
- notyourloops 10y ago
  Will Software Engineering become a valid engineering discipline?
  - todd8 10y ago
    It is a valid engineering discipline. Engineering is about making useful things, from metal, from concrete, from semiconductors, and from software. Engineering requires the application of methods that use science, mathematics, and processes that have been studied to invent and construct solutions. This is what Civil Engineers do and this is what Software Engineers do too. I see nothing wrong with someone calling themselves a software engineer that has both training (a CS degree for example) and experience (a few years) working in software development.
- lfowles 10y ago
  The software engineering PE exam has been offered for the past 3 years. https://engineers.texas.gov/software.html https://engineers.texas.gov/software.html
  - todd8 10y ago
    Let's look at the numbers. Texas and Florida have a PE test for Software Engineers. In Texas the numbers are (see [1]): 2014: 6 people took the test and 2 passed. 2015: 5 people took the test and 2 passed. 2016: 3 people took the test and 2 passed. Only California has more programmers than Texas, see [2], and it appears that there are 6 Professional Engineers at most in Texas in the field of Software Engineering out of over 20,000 programmers. My conclusion is that the title of PE in Software Engineering is currently pretty meaningless in the US. [1] https://engineers.texas.gov/exam_passfail.htm https://engineers.texas.gov/exam_passfail.htm [2] http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151131.htm http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151131.htm
    - pyre 10y ago
      That's fine, but I think that the parent was responding to this: > ABET (the engineering accreditation society in the US), doesn't have "Software Engineering" as a valid discipline. Which can be true or false independently of how meaningful the title is.
      - WWLink 10y ago
        The Computer Engineering degree I have is from an ABET program, it was pretty even on CS/EE. No regrets, except for the times the hardware guys act like I'm just a software guy and the software guys act like I don't know anything about software because I'm a hardware guy. XD
    - lfowles 10y ago
      Several factors of this: * Demand, since it is a new exam very few companies will be looking for a PE in software engineering. * Supply, it's not just taking the test (starting with the FE) but you also need to have worked under a PE in the field (hah!) or had relevant experience to waive that requirement (this is a lot more vague and determined by the state). I would wager that most with relevant experience in the field are also not wanting to bust ass to study for a PE exam that no employers are demanding. I'll be interested to see how long it takes for this to be more common. When I graduated (computer engineering) the consensus was that unless we knew our job would require a PE in the future that we didn't bother even taking the FE exam.
- linkregister 10y ago
  Sure it does: http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=317&ProgramIDs=3553 http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?Orga...
- chris_7 10y ago
  Why does some random organization get to decide whether or not people are a thing? It'd be one thing if it was the government, but this is like saying that no one can be a "soccer player" unless the USSF says so.
  - lfowles 10y ago
    Soccer players aren't responsible for designing walkways that won't catastrophically collapse when loaded. Also, not everyone in an engineering type role is a PE. There are some circumstances where the PE double/triple checks work done and signs off on it, putting their license (and livelihood) on the line if the work is shoddy.
    - chris_7 10y ago
      I have absolutely no problem with a non-government organization claiming authority over something like "ABET-Certified® Engineer". I have a giant problem with a non-government organization claiming authority over the generic English word "engineer".
      - lfowles 10y ago
        In the US it's more that the government claims authority over the phrase Professional Engineer [0], but ABET accredited programs feed into the FE exams which feed into the PE exams which are required to be licensed by the government. Little bit messier than either GP or you implied. [0] and probably also offering "engineering" services but I'm not sure of the extent there
    - antod 10y ago
      Yep structural engineering design in most countries doesn't need to be done by a registered professional engineer - just signed off by one. A lot of offices will have graduate/junior engineers that are not registered yet (but often working towards it) doing a lot of the donkey work. But they aren't responsible for it - the registered engineer who signs off on their work is.
  - clifanatic 10y ago
screaminghawk 10y ago
My degree is a "Bachelors of Engineering specialising in Software Engineering". Do I win?

sotojuan 10y ago

If you're in the US and want to be extremely pedantic/annoying, then no. ABET (the engineering accreditation society in the US), doesn't have "Software Engineering" as a valid discipline.

notyourloops 10y ago
Will Software Engineering become a valid engineering discipline?
- todd8 10y ago
  It is a valid engineering discipline. Engineering is about making useful things, from metal, from concrete, from semiconductors, and from software. Engineering requires the application of methods that use science, mathematics, and processes that have been studied to invent and construct solutions. This is what Civil Engineers do and this is what Software Engineers do too. I see nothing wrong with someone calling themselves a software engineer that has both training (a CS degree for example) and experience (a few years) working in software development.
lfowles 10y ago
The software engineering PE exam has been offered for the past 3 years. https://engineers.texas.gov/software.html https://engineers.texas.gov/software.html
- todd8 10y ago
  Let's look at the numbers. Texas and Florida have a PE test for Software Engineers. In Texas the numbers are (see [1]): 2014: 6 people took the test and 2 passed. 2015: 5 people took the test and 2 passed. 2016: 3 people took the test and 2 passed. Only California has more programmers than Texas, see [2], and it appears that there are 6 Professional Engineers at most in Texas in the field of Software Engineering out of over 20,000 programmers. My conclusion is that the title of PE in Software Engineering is currently pretty meaningless in the US. [1] https://engineers.texas.gov/exam_passfail.htm https://engineers.texas.gov/exam_passfail.htm [2] http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151131.htm http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151131.htm
  - pyre 10y ago
    That's fine, but I think that the parent was responding to this: > ABET (the engineering accreditation society in the US), doesn't have "Software Engineering" as a valid discipline. Which can be true or false independently of how meaningful the title is.
    - WWLink 10y ago
      The Computer Engineering degree I have is from an ABET program, it was pretty even on CS/EE. No regrets, except for the times the hardware guys act like I'm just a software guy and the software guys act like I don't know anything about software because I'm a hardware guy. XD
  - lfowles 10y ago
    Several factors of this: * Demand, since it is a new exam very few companies will be looking for a PE in software engineering. * Supply, it's not just taking the test (starting with the FE) but you also need to have worked under a PE in the field (hah!) or had relevant experience to waive that requirement (this is a lot more vague and determined by the state). I would wager that most with relevant experience in the field are also not wanting to bust ass to study for a PE exam that no employers are demanding. I'll be interested to see how long it takes for this to be more common. When I graduated (computer engineering) the consensus was that unless we knew our job would require a PE in the future that we didn't bother even taking the FE exam.
linkregister 10y ago
Sure it does: http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=317&ProgramIDs=3553 http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?Orga...
chris_7 10y ago
Why does some random organization get to decide whether or not people are a thing? It'd be one thing if it was the government, but this is like saying that no one can be a "soccer player" unless the USSF says so.
- lfowles 10y ago
  Soccer players aren't responsible for designing walkways that won't catastrophically collapse when loaded. Also, not everyone in an engineering type role is a PE. There are some circumstances where the PE double/triple checks work done and signs off on it, putting their license (and livelihood) on the line if the work is shoddy.
  - chris_7 10y ago
    I have absolutely no problem with a non-government organization claiming authority over something like "ABET-Certified® Engineer". I have a giant problem with a non-government organization claiming authority over the generic English word "engineer".
    - lfowles 10y ago
      In the US it's more that the government claims authority over the phrase Professional Engineer [0], but ABET accredited programs feed into the FE exams which feed into the PE exams which are required to be licensed by the government. Little bit messier than either GP or you implied. [0] and probably also offering "engineering" services but I'm not sure of the extent there
  - antod 10y ago
    Yep structural engineering design in most countries doesn't need to be done by a registered professional engineer - just signed off by one. A lot of offices will have graduate/junior engineers that are not registered yet (but often working towards it) doing a lot of the donkey work. But they aren't responsible for it - the registered engineer who signs off on their work is.
- clifanatic 10y ago

screaminghawk 10y ago

My degree is a "Bachelors of Engineering specialising in Software Engineering". Do I win?