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I would love to have a proper PE type thing for Software. I find it absolutely infuriating that "developers" refuse to accept accountability for the things they

I would love to have a proper PE type thing for Software. I find it absolutely infuriating that "developers" refuse to accept accountability for the things they write.

FLUX-YOU 10y ago
Then they'll just eliminate QA departments. If the guy doesn't produce perfect code, oh well, he's the liable one. Fire him and get someone else. The business takes on literally zero risk by employing the developer in this case. If you want to treat us like doctors and lawyers, you'd better give us their salary, benefits, and social status after we put in 4-8 years becoming qualified to meet this new threshold. Of course that's not going to happen, so guess who benefits by switching the industry to professional licenses?
- NikolaeVarius 10y ago
  Except engineers who have PEs and FEs don't exactly have massive salaries. "Software Engineers" are paid EXTRAORDINARILY well, especially compared to the amount of effort needed for that salary.
  - linkregister 10y ago
    I would put it the other way: PEs and FEs are wildly underpaid for their abilities. They are paid at the market price for the low job-growth market they're in, unfortunately. It's the same story with mathematicians and physicists who become finance quants. The finance world pays much better.
  - sotojuan 10y ago
    > "Software Engineers" are paid EXTRAORDINARILY well, especially compared to the amount of effort needed for that salary. Sometimes I feel weird that I've been paid six figures+ to glue an API to a JavaScript frontend, especially at my age. But that's just the current market.
lfowles 10y ago
As I noted in another comment, a "proper PE type thing" exists for Software Engineering. In fact, it's an actual PE exam since 2013. It's probably higher level than you had in mind though, if you were expecting a focus more on algorithms than software lifecycle? Software engineering topics: http://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/SWE-Apr-2013.pdf http://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/SWE-Apr-2013.pdf Electrical Engineering -> Computer Engineering topics: http://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/PE-Ele-Computer-Apr-2009-1.pdf http://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/PE-Ele-Computer-...
- RandomOpinion 10y ago
  Not all states offer the PE software engineering exam; Califorina and Washington, for example, do not. Moreover, the Fundamentals of Engineering exam, which is a prerequisite for becoming a PE contains topics most practicing programmers would never have encountered and the rest would barely remember if they had. (Thermodynamics? Differential equations? Really?) I'd say that either the ACM or IEEE Computer Society needs to develop an equivalent certification process and lobby to have states adopt it for licensure.
zodiac 10y ago
How is this relevant to the article

I would love to have a proper PE type thing for Software. I find it absolutely infuriating that "developers" refuse to accept accountability for the things they write.

FLUX-YOU 10y ago

Then they'll just eliminate QA departments. If the guy doesn't produce perfect code, oh well, he's the liable one. Fire him and get someone else. The business takes on literally zero risk by employing the developer in this case. If you want to treat us like doctors and lawyers, you'd better give us their salary, benefits, and social status after we put in 4-8 years becoming qualified to meet this new threshold. Of course that's not going to happen, so guess who benefits by switching the industry to professional licenses?

NikolaeVarius 10y ago
Except engineers who have PEs and FEs don't exactly have massive salaries. "Software Engineers" are paid EXTRAORDINARILY well, especially compared to the amount of effort needed for that salary.
- linkregister 10y ago
  I would put it the other way: PEs and FEs are wildly underpaid for their abilities. They are paid at the market price for the low job-growth market they're in, unfortunately. It's the same story with mathematicians and physicists who become finance quants. The finance world pays much better.
- sotojuan 10y ago
  > "Software Engineers" are paid EXTRAORDINARILY well, especially compared to the amount of effort needed for that salary. Sometimes I feel weird that I've been paid six figures+ to glue an API to a JavaScript frontend, especially at my age. But that's just the current market.

lfowles 10y ago

As I noted in another comment, a "proper PE type thing" exists for Software Engineering. In fact, it's an actual PE exam since 2013. It's probably higher level than you had in mind though, if you were expecting a focus more on algorithms than software lifecycle? Software engineering topics: http://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/SWE-Apr-2013.pdf http://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/SWE-Apr-2013.pdf Electrical Engineering -> Computer Engineering topics: http://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/PE-Ele-Computer-Apr-2009-1.pdf http://ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/PE-Ele-Computer-...

RandomOpinion 10y ago
Not all states offer the PE software engineering exam; Califorina and Washington, for example, do not. Moreover, the Fundamentals of Engineering exam, which is a prerequisite for becoming a PE contains topics most practicing programmers would never have encountered and the rest would barely remember if they had. (Thermodynamics? Differential equations? Really?) I'd say that either the ACM or IEEE Computer Society needs to develop an equivalent certification process and lobby to have states adopt it for licensure.

zodiac 10y ago

How is this relevant to the article