6 ms·

Wherever this guy has worked is where I never want to work. If people can't appreciate the value your engineers create then that's not a place to work. If this

by mevile 10y ago

Wherever this guy has worked is where I never want to work. If people can't appreciate the value your engineers create then that's not a place to work. If this guy's advice applies to your job, get a new job. I'm not going to work at a place where I'm worried about "attaching myself to the company's profit center" and other bullshit and I've been a happily employed programmer for 9 years now.

Xantier 10y ago
This is a very interesting comment and I like to think the same way. That is the way that seems to bring most happiness to me in professional life. The question is, how do we recognise these places before joining them?
vvanders 10y ago
Remember that d99? Getting a 1-95 are the places he describes. Congrats on making a good roll but this is still very relevant advice.
- nostrademons 10y ago
  The nice thing about at-will employment is that you can always re-roll, and usually keep the max of the two (or three, or five).
  - linkregister 10y ago
    I don't think dice are a good analogy since previous jobs affect the ability to get better subsequent ones. Yes, names on a resume and knowing the right people are important.
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    You don't get an infinite number of rolls in your career though. If you rolled a low number, you might not know it until after a few years. A better analogy is a baseball game. You get a few at-bats throughout your career, and that's it, and you generally have to do them serially. Either you swing for the home-run and risk missing, or take the safe base hit and never end up scoring a run.
  - Vraxx 10y ago
    An important point to be sure, although you don't exactly keep the max. It's more of a press-your-luck type of operation where you can't necessarily revert back to the max if you've already left it. Still a very valid point that you can switch jobs at any time you're unsatisfied.
- mevile 10y ago
  I've worked multiple places and it's never been a problem, including big corporations. If you rolled badly roll again.
codingdave 10y ago
I've done the startup thing. I've done the corporate LOB thing. They both can be great, they both can suck. Frankly, it mostly depends on your boss. But the point of the article is to not pigeonhole yourself. Don't be that guy who wrote that library, or the guy who maintains that app. Be the guy who brings value to the business. Be the guy who is considered an asset no matter what role they have, because you are working towards the goals of the business. Be the guy who knows when to say, "Yes, I can code that, but we can buy it just as cheaply, and let me focus on more important details of our business."
- mevile 10y ago
  > Yes, I can code that, but we can buy it just as cheaply, and let me focus on more important details of our business." Uh no. I code, that's what I do. I'm fine with being laid off if that's not creating value. I can code somewhere else. If you go into a non-engineering role, you are sacrificing your engineering career for temporary survival at your current job. The next engineering job you apply to wont probably like that you haven't done SWE work for whatever amount of time. Just pull off the bandaid and get a new job. I'm an engineer. I want to be good at engineering. I'm not interested in the rest of it. It's not my job to make sure the engineering tasks line up with business success. My job is making the math and the code work. Division of labor. I don't want any other role. If engineers aren't valued I'll go somewhere where they are. There are lots of engineers creating value all over the place. There's lots of opportunities out there, there's no reason to have to sell yourself if your skills don't.
  - redwards510 10y ago
    While I certainly sympathize with this attitude, these days I simply can't afford to think this way. If all I do is write code from a spec, what separates me from the millions of other 10x cheaper coders offshore? My native English skills? As an engineer it's easy to think "yeah, well I write good code.." but in my experience you will never be able to adequately demonstrate that to a potential employer during the interview process.
  - throwanem 10y ago
zodiac 10y ago
"This guy" used to run his own business and also did consulting when the article was written
blub 10y ago
It's part of a larger series of wise advice that seems to be appreciated nowadays. It goes like this: * don't call yourself a programmer, you are a revenue-enhancing solution provider * especially don't call yourself an X programmer, you will use whatever tool is necessary to complete the project and provide value * don't look for a job, this shows that you're weak. Let the jobs come to you. * keep yourself current with the latest frameworks and languages to prove that you can adapt to new challenges * having at least one but ideally more open source projects on github proves that you have passion * make sure you're a culture fit. Do go to the company parking lot beforehand to see what others wear. * wear nice clothes, brush your teeth and eat your veggies * <insert your own here> After doing all of this you will probably succeed in avoiding having your job outsourced or having that promotion given to someone that's an even bigger bulshitter than you. Congratulations! Now you only need to have some minor plastic surgery done and learn a few recent cultural references in order to not make your colleagues uncomfortable. You are well on your way to become the perfect solution provider citizen!

by mevile 10y ago

Xantier 10y ago

This is a very interesting comment and I like to think the same way. That is the way that seems to bring most happiness to me in professional life. The question is, how do we recognise these places before joining them?

vvanders 10y ago

Remember that d99? Getting a 1-95 are the places he describes. Congrats on making a good roll but this is still very relevant advice.

nostrademons 10y ago
The nice thing about at-will employment is that you can always re-roll, and usually keep the max of the two (or three, or five).
- linkregister 10y ago
  I don't think dice are a good analogy since previous jobs affect the ability to get better subsequent ones. Yes, names on a resume and knowing the right people are important.
- ryandrake 10y ago
  You don't get an infinite number of rolls in your career though. If you rolled a low number, you might not know it until after a few years. A better analogy is a baseball game. You get a few at-bats throughout your career, and that's it, and you generally have to do them serially. Either you swing for the home-run and risk missing, or take the safe base hit and never end up scoring a run.
- Vraxx 10y ago
  An important point to be sure, although you don't exactly keep the max. It's more of a press-your-luck type of operation where you can't necessarily revert back to the max if you've already left it. Still a very valid point that you can switch jobs at any time you're unsatisfied.
mevile 10y ago
I've worked multiple places and it's never been a problem, including big corporations. If you rolled badly roll again.

codingdave 10y ago

I've done the startup thing. I've done the corporate LOB thing. They both can be great, they both can suck. Frankly, it mostly depends on your boss. But the point of the article is to not pigeonhole yourself. Don't be that guy who wrote that library, or the guy who maintains that app. Be the guy who brings value to the business. Be the guy who is considered an asset no matter what role they have, because you are working towards the goals of the business. Be the guy who knows when to say, "Yes, I can code that, but we can buy it just as cheaply, and let me focus on more important details of our business."

mevile 10y ago
> Yes, I can code that, but we can buy it just as cheaply, and let me focus on more important details of our business." Uh no. I code, that's what I do. I'm fine with being laid off if that's not creating value. I can code somewhere else. If you go into a non-engineering role, you are sacrificing your engineering career for temporary survival at your current job. The next engineering job you apply to wont probably like that you haven't done SWE work for whatever amount of time. Just pull off the bandaid and get a new job. I'm an engineer. I want to be good at engineering. I'm not interested in the rest of it. It's not my job to make sure the engineering tasks line up with business success. My job is making the math and the code work. Division of labor. I don't want any other role. If engineers aren't valued I'll go somewhere where they are. There are lots of engineers creating value all over the place. There's lots of opportunities out there, there's no reason to have to sell yourself if your skills don't.
- redwards510 10y ago
  While I certainly sympathize with this attitude, these days I simply can't afford to think this way. If all I do is write code from a spec, what separates me from the millions of other 10x cheaper coders offshore? My native English skills? As an engineer it's easy to think "yeah, well I write good code.." but in my experience you will never be able to adequately demonstrate that to a potential employer during the interview process.
- throwanem 10y ago

zodiac 10y ago

"This guy" used to run his own business and also did consulting when the article was written

blub 10y ago

It's part of a larger series of wise advice that seems to be appreciated nowadays. It goes like this: * don't call yourself a programmer, you are a revenue-enhancing solution provider * especially don't call yourself an X programmer, you will use whatever tool is necessary to complete the project and provide value * don't look for a job, this shows that you're weak. Let the jobs come to you. * keep yourself current with the latest frameworks and languages to prove that you can adapt to new challenges * having at least one but ideally more open source projects on github proves that you have passion * make sure you're a culture fit. Do go to the company parking lot beforehand to see what others wear. * wear nice clothes, brush your teeth and eat your veggies * <insert your own here> After doing all of this you will probably succeed in avoiding having your job outsourced or having that promotion given to someone that's an even bigger bulshitter than you. Congratulations! Now you only need to have some minor plastic surgery done and learn a few recent cultural references in order to not make your colleagues uncomfortable. You are well on your way to become the perfect solution provider citizen!