4 ms·

Is the problem of authenticity, another word for being yourself (right?) a problem specific to online? I wonder if it's a problem that came with modern civiliza

Is the problem of authenticity, another word for being yourself (right?) a problem specific to online? I wonder if it's a problem that came with modern civilization. People can feel this way IRL. I guess the Internet does add an extra measure of distance in a sense but in another sense it reduces those distances. We all routinely interact with people all over the globe. I'm not arguing against what you're saying, just trying to think about it. When did we lose the authentic? And are we trying to restore it online? If so, is it working at all?

stnmtn 10y ago
I was reading a book a couple weeks ago and there was a throwaway line that really stuck out to me. I think it was a David Foster Wallace book It was something like all the great themes are taken. We've taken all the great themes and adventures and created theme parks where you can go to experience a fantasy yet know this isn't real. You know it's not authentic. I'm butchering the meaning of it, wish I could figure out where I read it Edit: I found it! apparently, it's from a 1990 movie I've never seen nor heard of, which doesn't sound right. I'm like 80% sure I read it in Brief Interviews with Hideous Men "You see, there's nothing to do anymore. Everything decent's been done. All the great themes have been used up. Turned into theme parks. So I don't really find it exactly cheerful to be living in the middle of a totally, like, exhausted decade where there's nothing to look forward to and no one to look up to."
- marmot777 10y ago
  I didn't buy it when someone said, "there's nothing new under the sun" and I don't buy it now. :-)
  - wott 10y ago
    Because this has been said and done already, too...
- marmot777 10y ago
  If it's new to me then why should I care? Why is new ipso facto good? And what are some examples of theme parks? I know a lot of people who go out in the wilderness any chance they get but if that's not your thing, there are plenty of ways to get right to the basics even in day to day life. And if novelty is what you're seeking, anything new to you is novel. You're not the first person to climb a mountain but if it's your first time, it's a novel experience. New is overrated. The supply of novelty is unlimited right now. If I'm going to be derivative then this serves: "I've got 99 problems and 'there's nothing to do anymore' ain't one of them." If you think this is boring, you probably don't remember life before the Internet... :-)
  - stnmtn 10y ago
    You're right, I was born with the Internet and grew up with it as a constant. Some of my earliest memories are literally of those ugly gray 90's computers. It's not about quitting the internet to get 'back to basics' (although doing that is incredibly beneficial for me), it's about this weird feeling where you are forced to accept that the enormity of human knowledge is available in your pocket at all times, but it's not going to really change things for you. I know I'm coming off as a cynical, negative person, but I'm just trying to explain, as a person who doesn't remember a time before email, what it feels like trying to be Authentic with a capital A. It's actually not hard and I think most people really truly are authentically themselves even in this new age, but it's different in a way that's hard to put a finger on. An authentic person who grew up with the Internet can't be authentic in the same way as a person who grew up before the internet. Maybe I'm projecting, and maybe it's just a generational thing but I don't think it can be stressed enough how different the last 20 years have been
    - marmot777 10y ago
      You lucky bastard. I had to use an Apple IIe and walk to school 10 miles in the snow. I didn't even know what the weather was going to be without looking out the window. Hard times. I'm kidding of course, people are people, Internet or no Internet. An Apple and afternoon kung fu movies were sufficient. I wasn't suggesting a person quit the Internet. No fucking way. You'll take my Internet from my cold, dead hands or Comcast will drop the ball on my connection. I just know people who aren't jacked in all the time, going out hiking in the wilderness, doing Yoga, running long distances, drinking too much, playing pictionary, reading sf, etc. It's hard to get down to authentic. That's ego death. But I'd say you're yourself always and everywhere, just maybe adjusting to the situation. I'm not really presenting myself the same way discussing politics with a right winger than I am in the grocery store checkout line. So I'd say you're authentic, I'm authentic, even if we don't remember a world before the Internet. Lucky bastard! Btw, honestly, I still don't understand what authentic means?
rdiddly 10y ago
The loss of authenticity most definitely has something to do with modern life itself (i.e. since the Industrial Revolution) though arguably goes back to the dawn of the practice of agriculture some 10,000 years ago. You ought to read, I hesitate to suggest, the Unabomber Manifesto a.k.a. "Industrial Society and its Future" by Ted Kaczynski. No shortage there of ideas on how modern man has lost his authenticity. (He also calls for violent revolution, which is just ADORABLE.) We evolved to be hunter-gatherers in small social groups. As such, being on high alert for a faint sound, a movement in your peripheral vision, or some sign from your friends, comes naturally to us because these are traits that were naturally selected and could mean the difference between having a meal and going hungry, or between life and death. "Distraction" wasn't an issue either, because the distraction was usually the more important/urgent thing to be paying attention to, and because there weren't as many of them. We didn't have the situation we have today, where these entire natural cycles of stimulus/response/reward have been studied, and where people have figured out through years of trial-and-error, how to replicate the stimuli, and replace the rewards, in order to substitute a different response that just so happens to make them money. To the degree that you are susceptible to these stimuli you are actually being an authentic human being. It's the environment you're in that is completely inauthentic. We're all swimming in an ocean of bullshit. Being born into a world already mostly built and made for us, it's easy to forget that somebody (humans) had to come along and construct it all. Once you realize humans built it all, you then realize they had to have a reason, an incentive, maybe even an agenda. Being authentic requires reclaiming your own agenda and rejecting others' agendas where they differ from yours.

stnmtn 10y ago

I was reading a book a couple weeks ago and there was a throwaway line that really stuck out to me. I think it was a David Foster Wallace book It was something like all the great themes are taken. We've taken all the great themes and adventures and created theme parks where you can go to experience a fantasy yet know this isn't real. You know it's not authentic. I'm butchering the meaning of it, wish I could figure out where I read it Edit: I found it! apparently, it's from a 1990 movie I've never seen nor heard of, which doesn't sound right. I'm like 80% sure I read it in Brief Interviews with Hideous Men "You see, there's nothing to do anymore. Everything decent's been done. All the great themes have been used up. Turned into theme parks. So I don't really find it exactly cheerful to be living in the middle of a totally, like, exhausted decade where there's nothing to look forward to and no one to look up to."

marmot777 10y ago
I didn't buy it when someone said, "there's nothing new under the sun" and I don't buy it now. :-)
- wott 10y ago
  Because this has been said and done already, too...
marmot777 10y ago
If it's new to me then why should I care? Why is new ipso facto good? And what are some examples of theme parks? I know a lot of people who go out in the wilderness any chance they get but if that's not your thing, there are plenty of ways to get right to the basics even in day to day life. And if novelty is what you're seeking, anything new to you is novel. You're not the first person to climb a mountain but if it's your first time, it's a novel experience. New is overrated. The supply of novelty is unlimited right now. If I'm going to be derivative then this serves: "I've got 99 problems and 'there's nothing to do anymore' ain't one of them." If you think this is boring, you probably don't remember life before the Internet... :-)
- stnmtn 10y ago
  You're right, I was born with the Internet and grew up with it as a constant. Some of my earliest memories are literally of those ugly gray 90's computers. It's not about quitting the internet to get 'back to basics' (although doing that is incredibly beneficial for me), it's about this weird feeling where you are forced to accept that the enormity of human knowledge is available in your pocket at all times, but it's not going to really change things for you. I know I'm coming off as a cynical, negative person, but I'm just trying to explain, as a person who doesn't remember a time before email, what it feels like trying to be Authentic with a capital A. It's actually not hard and I think most people really truly are authentically themselves even in this new age, but it's different in a way that's hard to put a finger on. An authentic person who grew up with the Internet can't be authentic in the same way as a person who grew up before the internet. Maybe I'm projecting, and maybe it's just a generational thing but I don't think it can be stressed enough how different the last 20 years have been
  - marmot777 10y ago
    You lucky bastard. I had to use an Apple IIe and walk to school 10 miles in the snow. I didn't even know what the weather was going to be without looking out the window. Hard times. I'm kidding of course, people are people, Internet or no Internet. An Apple and afternoon kung fu movies were sufficient. I wasn't suggesting a person quit the Internet. No fucking way. You'll take my Internet from my cold, dead hands or Comcast will drop the ball on my connection. I just know people who aren't jacked in all the time, going out hiking in the wilderness, doing Yoga, running long distances, drinking too much, playing pictionary, reading sf, etc. It's hard to get down to authentic. That's ego death. But I'd say you're yourself always and everywhere, just maybe adjusting to the situation. I'm not really presenting myself the same way discussing politics with a right winger than I am in the grocery store checkout line. So I'd say you're authentic, I'm authentic, even if we don't remember a world before the Internet. Lucky bastard! Btw, honestly, I still don't understand what authentic means?

rdiddly 10y ago

The loss of authenticity most definitely has something to do with modern life itself (i.e. since the Industrial Revolution) though arguably goes back to the dawn of the practice of agriculture some 10,000 years ago. You ought to read, I hesitate to suggest, the Unabomber Manifesto a.k.a. "Industrial Society and its Future" by Ted Kaczynski. No shortage there of ideas on how modern man has lost his authenticity. (He also calls for violent revolution, which is just ADORABLE.) We evolved to be hunter-gatherers in small social groups. As such, being on high alert for a faint sound, a movement in your peripheral vision, or some sign from your friends, comes naturally to us because these are traits that were naturally selected and could mean the difference between having a meal and going hungry, or between life and death. "Distraction" wasn't an issue either, because the distraction was usually the more important/urgent thing to be paying attention to, and because there weren't as many of them. We didn't have the situation we have today, where these entire natural cycles of stimulus/response/reward have been studied, and where people have figured out through years of trial-and-error, how to replicate the stimuli, and replace the rewards, in order to substitute a different response that just so happens to make them money. To the degree that you are susceptible to these stimuli you are actually being an authentic human being. It's the environment you're in that is completely inauthentic. We're all swimming in an ocean of bullshit. Being born into a world already mostly built and made for us, it's easy to forget that somebody (humans) had to come along and construct it all. Once you realize humans built it all, you then realize they had to have a reason, an incentive, maybe even an agenda. Being authentic requires reclaiming your own agenda and rejecting others' agendas where they differ from yours.