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"I used to be a human being": I like this phrase. It captures, poetically, the existential despair of losing the conditions of humanity. Regardless of if the au

"I used to be a human being": I like this phrase. It captures, poetically, the existential despair of losing the conditions of humanity. Regardless of if the author's particular conditions necessitates the implicit drama, each of one us, I'm sure, have felt like we lost what made us "real" or "authentic" at some point or another.

pmoriarty 10y ago
People have complained about the loss of authenticity for much longer than the internet (much less social media) has been around. It happens around any time of great change. We happen to be living through a period of some of the fastest changes in human history, so it's not surprising a lot of people are confused and feel like they've lost something.
- marmot777 10y ago
  What have we lost? I don't doubt we have lost something, I just don't know what it is.
  - stnmtn 10y ago
    What have we lost? In my opinion, a big part of it is the illusion that people are more than just people With the internet, we've been able to confirm that everyone is, more or less, just like us. You can see this especially in up and coming new media stars. They use self deprecation as a crutch and irony is really funny. The internet released a hall of mirrors on society and now the illusion of authenticity is broken Why is that that 'Hipsters' reach out for things that they hope are real? Facial hair is real. Single-Speed Bikes are real. I'm talking about a stereotype here, obviously, but I think that a hipster is something who reaches for external authenticity I hope I don't sound like a cynical person, because I really don't think I am. I don't think this is a terrible thing, but it certainly makes navigating people much harder because the illusion of becoming one of 'The Greats' with a Capital G is something that doesn't seem very possible anymore
    - marmot777 10y ago
      I'm not following the celebrity bit. You're saying we are seeing through the illusion of authenticity because of a wall of mirrors released by the Internet? I get that it's a metaphor but I don't understand what you're getting at. What's your definition of real? I ask because when I think of single speed bikes, the first thing that comes to mind isn't real, it's what a pain in the ass. Just because it's a throwback doesn't make it more real. Get a real bike! No I don't think anything at all. I'm in fucking Oregon. I'd go nuts thinking. And is the reason you're having trouble navigating people because they have the illusion of becoming one of the Greats or is it you that has that illusion? This is all intriguing but a bit obtuse.
      - stnmtn 10y ago
        There's almost a crabs in the bucket type thing that is really obvious to see when a person becomes successful. People start to dredge up all the shitty things in their past. MLK was an adulterer, Mother Theresa was a dick, etc etc. I hope you understand what I mean. I really enjoy thinking about this stuff, because while it obviously doesn't apply to people at an individual level at all, it's really interesting to see how information overload can affect people en masse On another note, I think maybe a lot of the cultural-death-by-irony (that phrase is overstating it, but it gets the point across) stuff I'm saying is better shown in a movie called The Comedy with Tim Heidecker, which is a movie that is just about what the fuck 'Post-Irony' is and why it's a scary thing
        marmot777 10y ago
        I do get what you're saying but I think it's not a useful place to focus your attention. I'm not a fan of being a dick, though I sometimes am one, nor a fan of adultury, that said I devote no bandwidth to hand wringing about MLK's personal life, Mother Theresa's temperament. Under that much scrutiny, you can find a lot of dirt about any human being. Not useful. Yeah, irony has amplified the whole nihilism thing. I'm fine with irony if used in moderation not as a way of life.
        10y ago
- kp1234321 10y ago
  > We happen to be living through a period of some of the fastest changes in human history Couldn't this have been said accurately at just about every point in human history? I'm not asking to try and refute what you said - I think that supports the first point you made. The world is always changing at an exponential rate and we are always on the curve, so people will continue to lament loss of the past until the end of time.
  - elliotec 10y ago
    Not necessarily - before the industrial revolution the pace of change was very very very slow comparatively. In fact, our rate of change now is pretty slow and minor compared to the changes during the time that Victoria was the queen of England.
marmot777 10y ago
Is the problem of authenticity, another word for being yourself (right?) a problem specific to online? I wonder if it's a problem that came with modern civilization. People can feel this way IRL. I guess the Internet does add an extra measure of distance in a sense but in another sense it reduces those distances. We all routinely interact with people all over the globe. I'm not arguing against what you're saying, just trying to think about it. When did we lose the authentic? And are we trying to restore it online? If so, is it working at all?
- stnmtn 10y ago
  I was reading a book a couple weeks ago and there was a throwaway line that really stuck out to me. I think it was a David Foster Wallace book It was something like all the great themes are taken. We've taken all the great themes and adventures and created theme parks where you can go to experience a fantasy yet know this isn't real. You know it's not authentic. I'm butchering the meaning of it, wish I could figure out where I read it Edit: I found it! apparently, it's from a 1990 movie I've never seen nor heard of, which doesn't sound right. I'm like 80% sure I read it in Brief Interviews with Hideous Men "You see, there's nothing to do anymore. Everything decent's been done. All the great themes have been used up. Turned into theme parks. So I don't really find it exactly cheerful to be living in the middle of a totally, like, exhausted decade where there's nothing to look forward to and no one to look up to."
  - marmot777 10y ago
    I didn't buy it when someone said, "there's nothing new under the sun" and I don't buy it now. :-)
    - wott 10y ago
      Because this has been said and done already, too...
  - marmot777 10y ago
    If it's new to me then why should I care? Why is new ipso facto good? And what are some examples of theme parks? I know a lot of people who go out in the wilderness any chance they get but if that's not your thing, there are plenty of ways to get right to the basics even in day to day life. And if novelty is what you're seeking, anything new to you is novel. You're not the first person to climb a mountain but if it's your first time, it's a novel experience. New is overrated. The supply of novelty is unlimited right now. If I'm going to be derivative then this serves: "I've got 99 problems and 'there's nothing to do anymore' ain't one of them." If you think this is boring, you probably don't remember life before the Internet... :-)

pmoriarty 10y ago

People have complained about the loss of authenticity for much longer than the internet (much less social media) has been around. It happens around any time of great change. We happen to be living through a period of some of the fastest changes in human history, so it's not surprising a lot of people are confused and feel like they've lost something.

marmot777 10y ago
What have we lost? I don't doubt we have lost something, I just don't know what it is.
- stnmtn 10y ago
  What have we lost? In my opinion, a big part of it is the illusion that people are more than just people With the internet, we've been able to confirm that everyone is, more or less, just like us. You can see this especially in up and coming new media stars. They use self deprecation as a crutch and irony is really funny. The internet released a hall of mirrors on society and now the illusion of authenticity is broken Why is that that 'Hipsters' reach out for things that they hope are real? Facial hair is real. Single-Speed Bikes are real. I'm talking about a stereotype here, obviously, but I think that a hipster is something who reaches for external authenticity I hope I don't sound like a cynical person, because I really don't think I am. I don't think this is a terrible thing, but it certainly makes navigating people much harder because the illusion of becoming one of 'The Greats' with a Capital G is something that doesn't seem very possible anymore
  - marmot777 10y ago
    I'm not following the celebrity bit. You're saying we are seeing through the illusion of authenticity because of a wall of mirrors released by the Internet? I get that it's a metaphor but I don't understand what you're getting at. What's your definition of real? I ask because when I think of single speed bikes, the first thing that comes to mind isn't real, it's what a pain in the ass. Just because it's a throwback doesn't make it more real. Get a real bike! No I don't think anything at all. I'm in fucking Oregon. I'd go nuts thinking. And is the reason you're having trouble navigating people because they have the illusion of becoming one of the Greats or is it you that has that illusion? This is all intriguing but a bit obtuse.
    - stnmtn 10y ago
      There's almost a crabs in the bucket type thing that is really obvious to see when a person becomes successful. People start to dredge up all the shitty things in their past. MLK was an adulterer, Mother Theresa was a dick, etc etc. I hope you understand what I mean. I really enjoy thinking about this stuff, because while it obviously doesn't apply to people at an individual level at all, it's really interesting to see how information overload can affect people en masse On another note, I think maybe a lot of the cultural-death-by-irony (that phrase is overstating it, but it gets the point across) stuff I'm saying is better shown in a movie called The Comedy with Tim Heidecker, which is a movie that is just about what the fuck 'Post-Irony' is and why it's a scary thing
      - marmot777 10y ago
        I do get what you're saying but I think it's not a useful place to focus your attention. I'm not a fan of being a dick, though I sometimes am one, nor a fan of adultury, that said I devote no bandwidth to hand wringing about MLK's personal life, Mother Theresa's temperament. Under that much scrutiny, you can find a lot of dirt about any human being. Not useful. Yeah, irony has amplified the whole nihilism thing. I'm fine with irony if used in moderation not as a way of life.
        10y ago
kp1234321 10y ago
> We happen to be living through a period of some of the fastest changes in human history Couldn't this have been said accurately at just about every point in human history? I'm not asking to try and refute what you said - I think that supports the first point you made. The world is always changing at an exponential rate and we are always on the curve, so people will continue to lament loss of the past until the end of time.
- elliotec 10y ago
  Not necessarily - before the industrial revolution the pace of change was very very very slow comparatively. In fact, our rate of change now is pretty slow and minor compared to the changes during the time that Victoria was the queen of England.

marmot777 10y ago

Is the problem of authenticity, another word for being yourself (right?) a problem specific to online? I wonder if it's a problem that came with modern civilization. People can feel this way IRL. I guess the Internet does add an extra measure of distance in a sense but in another sense it reduces those distances. We all routinely interact with people all over the globe. I'm not arguing against what you're saying, just trying to think about it. When did we lose the authentic? And are we trying to restore it online? If so, is it working at all?

stnmtn 10y ago
I was reading a book a couple weeks ago and there was a throwaway line that really stuck out to me. I think it was a David Foster Wallace book It was something like all the great themes are taken. We've taken all the great themes and adventures and created theme parks where you can go to experience a fantasy yet know this isn't real. You know it's not authentic. I'm butchering the meaning of it, wish I could figure out where I read it Edit: I found it! apparently, it's from a 1990 movie I've never seen nor heard of, which doesn't sound right. I'm like 80% sure I read it in Brief Interviews with Hideous Men "You see, there's nothing to do anymore. Everything decent's been done. All the great themes have been used up. Turned into theme parks. So I don't really find it exactly cheerful to be living in the middle of a totally, like, exhausted decade where there's nothing to look forward to and no one to look up to."
- marmot777 10y ago
  I didn't buy it when someone said, "there's nothing new under the sun" and I don't buy it now. :-)
  - wott 10y ago
    Because this has been said and done already, too...
- marmot777 10y ago
  If it's new to me then why should I care? Why is new ipso facto good? And what are some examples of theme parks? I know a lot of people who go out in the wilderness any chance they get but if that's not your thing, there are plenty of ways to get right to the basics even in day to day life. And if novelty is what you're seeking, anything new to you is novel. You're not the first person to climb a mountain but if it's your first time, it's a novel experience. New is overrated. The supply of novelty is unlimited right now. If I'm going to be derivative then this serves: "I've got 99 problems and 'there's nothing to do anymore' ain't one of them." If you think this is boring, you probably don't remember life before the Internet... :-)