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Its concerning to see Modafinil on the same list of "defaults" as caffeine and vitamin D. They are on a different scale when it comes to the effect on your brai

by cavisne 10y ago

Its concerning to see Modafinil on the same list of "defaults" as caffeine and vitamin D. They are on a different scale when it comes to the effect on your brain. That aside, my anecdotal experience of mod is its basically a waste of time. Sure you stay awake longer but we can all easily procrastinate a day away regardless, it wont make you any more focused or any smarter. If you for some reason need to improve your focus for a period then dexamphetamines are the way to go, of course you should not pop them every day.

RandomInteger4 10y ago
If you take a consistent low dose of Adderall at least, there should be nothing wrong with taking it every day and might actually be preferable that way, otherwise you're in for a rollercoaster effect. The longer you're on though, up to a point at least I imagine, assuming the dose is consistent, you will have a greater withdrawal period that will really suck compared to if you only use them recreationally, which I consider to include situations where you take them only when you need them, such as all nighters; that definitely falls under recreational usage.
- aidenn0 10y ago
  Different drugs affect people differently. I was rendered incapable of driving safely with a moderate dose of Addreall (30mg), and still felt somewhat unsafe with a low dose of Adderall(15mg). The main effect was that I could no longer subconsciously distinguish moving objects from non-moving objects (I had to think "is that car parked or moving" rather than being able to just tell by looking). My weight is 105kg.
  - 0xffff2 10y ago
    Is 30mg really a moderate does? When I had a pers ription for Aderral, 20mg was enough to make me feel like I was going to die.
    - unimpressive 10y ago
      >Is 30mg really a moderate does? No, it's not. It's far from unheard of to start getting hallucinations on 30mg of amphetamine. In the 30's and 40's Benzedrine was generally prescribed in 5 or 10 milligram tablets.
      - aidenn0 10y ago
        Well someone should tell my Psychiatrist that as it's the dose she started me at (actually 2x 30mg, once in the morning and once in the afternoon). The side effects were quite severe so I only took that dose once.
        nommm-nommm 10y ago
        Thats Crazy! I was started at 5 IIRC.
        aidenn0 10y ago
        I think her reasons were 1) my weight and 2) It took a lot of Ritalin before I showed any theraputic response.
    - RandomInteger4 10y ago
      30mg in a single dose is fairly high. It's not so bad if you split that into two doses over the course of a day, but still kind of high for the average person.
    - loeg 10y ago
      30 is huge if you don't have a tolerance. I find 5 mg very buzzy on no tolerance.
  - RandomInteger4 10y ago
    That's pretty interesting, though like the other replies, I don't think I would call 30mg (in a single dose) moderate, but that's neither here nor there with your situation. Like you said, drugs like this affect people differently and it all depends on the neurochemistry of the individual, which to the best of my knowledge they don't (can't?) test for when they prescribe this stuff. I was taking 30mg / day (15mg twice a day) and was pretty functional, though I think the dose might have been too high. Later on I would drop down to 15mg / day (7.5mg twice / day) and that was the sweet spot.
  - roel_v 10y ago
    If the 30mg was not MR ('modified release', essentially this will release half right away, then the other half over the next few hours; I'm not sure there is 'MR' Adderall in every country or even if it's officially called 'MR' at all), then 30mg is a very high dose, even for someone as heavy as yourself. 20mg MR or 10mg 'straight up' is 'moderate' and will be noticeable by most people.
patrickg_zill 10y ago
My experience with modafinil was quite distinct. If I started a task I could stick with it for a long time. However it was indiscriminate as to the task importance. It gave me a much narrower focus - when I was playing pinball at a local bar my scores dropped because I was narrowly focused on where the ball was, rather than where it would be, and I had to consciously force myself into using my peripheral vision. Another example: I was practicing hand-writing a different (non-Latin) alphabet and had a practice book. Usually I could do one or two pages and then stop for the day, wanting to do something else. On modafinil I did about ten pages' worth.
pw 10y ago
I think there are some studies that show modafinil leads to a boost in IQ by a couple of points (although it sounds like that effect tapers off if you're already very intelligent). What makes you say the effect on the brain of modafinil is "on a different scale" than caffeine?
cariaso 10y ago
You suggest that it does work, but that procrastination is still possible. fair enough. But if it doesn't keep you awake, it's possible that you're one of the ~15% of the population who is a non responder due to: rs4680(A;A) aka Met/Met at COMT Val158Met via http://snpedia.com/index.php/Rs4680(A;A) http://snpedia.com/index.php/Rs4680(A;A) rs4680(G;G) carriers deprived of sleep respond quite well to 2x 100mg modafinil in terms of improved vigor and well-being, and maintained baseline performance with respect to executive functioning, whereas rs4680(A;A) individuals barely responded to the drug at all. via https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19037200 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19037200 Two-time 100 mg modafinil potently improved vigor and well-being, and maintained baseline performance with respect to executive functioning and vigilant attention throughout sleep deprivation in Val/Val genotype subjects but was hardly effective in subjects with the Met/Met genotype.
- throwaway713 10y ago
  I really want to get my DNA tested, because I'm almost certain that I have the AA variant. rs4680 is also known as the worrier/warrior gene; those with the AA variant tend to handle stress poorly, have high anxiety, and are neurotic. Seeing as how I fall apart with the slightest bit of stress in my life and score 100% on every neuroticism test I take, I would be very surprised if I didn't have this variant of the gene. Also, my psychiatrist prescribed me Modafinil at 100 mg. I felt nothing and fell asleep shortly after taking it. He bumped it up to 200 mg -- still felt nothing. At 400 mg I just decided to quit taking it, because it literally had no effect whatsoever. Bit of a bummer, because I had high hopes for its effect on my ability to stay awake and focus. (Adderall, on the other hand, does produce a noticeable difference.)
- gwern 10y ago
  I should mention that I no longer think Rs4680 has anything to do with modafinil response. It was a candidate-gene study, so it was always in considerable doubt, and when I asked about Rs4680 in my modafinil survey (draft: http://www.gwern.net/Modafinil%20survey http://www.gwern.net/Modafinil%20survey ), 216 people had their Rs4680 status available and it did not correlate with their self-evaluations of how effective modafinil was for them (slightly the opposite, actually). This is ~10x bigger than the original study which was also based on self-report and if anything, you would expect a survey to be biased towards finding an effect since people know about the earlier report...
BurningFrog 10y ago
Modafinil helps with being awake, not with being focused. If your problem is not sleepiness, it probably won't address it.
driverdan 10y ago
> it wont make you any more focused or any smarter This depends on your brain chemistry. Most people I've talked to who have used Modafinil do have increased focus, just like other stimulants.

by cavisne 10y ago

RandomInteger4 10y ago

If you take a consistent low dose of Adderall at least, there should be nothing wrong with taking it every day and might actually be preferable that way, otherwise you're in for a rollercoaster effect. The longer you're on though, up to a point at least I imagine, assuming the dose is consistent, you will have a greater withdrawal period that will really suck compared to if you only use them recreationally, which I consider to include situations where you take them only when you need them, such as all nighters; that definitely falls under recreational usage.

aidenn0 10y ago
Different drugs affect people differently. I was rendered incapable of driving safely with a moderate dose of Addreall (30mg), and still felt somewhat unsafe with a low dose of Adderall(15mg). The main effect was that I could no longer subconsciously distinguish moving objects from non-moving objects (I had to think "is that car parked or moving" rather than being able to just tell by looking). My weight is 105kg.
- 0xffff2 10y ago
  Is 30mg really a moderate does? When I had a pers ription for Aderral, 20mg was enough to make me feel like I was going to die.
  - unimpressive 10y ago
    >Is 30mg really a moderate does? No, it's not. It's far from unheard of to start getting hallucinations on 30mg of amphetamine. In the 30's and 40's Benzedrine was generally prescribed in 5 or 10 milligram tablets.
    - aidenn0 10y ago
      Well someone should tell my Psychiatrist that as it's the dose she started me at (actually 2x 30mg, once in the morning and once in the afternoon). The side effects were quite severe so I only took that dose once.
      - nommm-nommm 10y ago
        Thats Crazy! I was started at 5 IIRC.
        aidenn0 10y ago
        I think her reasons were 1) my weight and 2) It took a lot of Ritalin before I showed any theraputic response.
  - RandomInteger4 10y ago
    30mg in a single dose is fairly high. It's not so bad if you split that into two doses over the course of a day, but still kind of high for the average person.
  - loeg 10y ago
    30 is huge if you don't have a tolerance. I find 5 mg very buzzy on no tolerance.
- RandomInteger4 10y ago
  That's pretty interesting, though like the other replies, I don't think I would call 30mg (in a single dose) moderate, but that's neither here nor there with your situation. Like you said, drugs like this affect people differently and it all depends on the neurochemistry of the individual, which to the best of my knowledge they don't (can't?) test for when they prescribe this stuff. I was taking 30mg / day (15mg twice a day) and was pretty functional, though I think the dose might have been too high. Later on I would drop down to 15mg / day (7.5mg twice / day) and that was the sweet spot.
- roel_v 10y ago
  If the 30mg was not MR ('modified release', essentially this will release half right away, then the other half over the next few hours; I'm not sure there is 'MR' Adderall in every country or even if it's officially called 'MR' at all), then 30mg is a very high dose, even for someone as heavy as yourself. 20mg MR or 10mg 'straight up' is 'moderate' and will be noticeable by most people.

patrickg_zill 10y ago

My experience with modafinil was quite distinct. If I started a task I could stick with it for a long time. However it was indiscriminate as to the task importance. It gave me a much narrower focus - when I was playing pinball at a local bar my scores dropped because I was narrowly focused on where the ball was, rather than where it would be, and I had to consciously force myself into using my peripheral vision. Another example: I was practicing hand-writing a different (non-Latin) alphabet and had a practice book. Usually I could do one or two pages and then stop for the day, wanting to do something else. On modafinil I did about ten pages' worth.

pw 10y ago

I think there are some studies that show modafinil leads to a boost in IQ by a couple of points (although it sounds like that effect tapers off if you're already very intelligent). What makes you say the effect on the brain of modafinil is "on a different scale" than caffeine?

cariaso 10y ago

You suggest that it does work, but that procrastination is still possible. fair enough. But if it doesn't keep you awake, it's possible that you're one of the ~15% of the population who is a non responder due to: rs4680(A;A) aka Met/Met at COMT Val158Met via http://snpedia.com/index.php/Rs4680(A;A) http://snpedia.com/index.php/Rs4680(A;A) rs4680(G;G) carriers deprived of sleep respond quite well to 2x 100mg modafinil in terms of improved vigor and well-being, and maintained baseline performance with respect to executive functioning, whereas rs4680(A;A) individuals barely responded to the drug at all. via https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19037200 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19037200 Two-time 100 mg modafinil potently improved vigor and well-being, and maintained baseline performance with respect to executive functioning and vigilant attention throughout sleep deprivation in Val/Val genotype subjects but was hardly effective in subjects with the Met/Met genotype.

throwaway713 10y ago
I really want to get my DNA tested, because I'm almost certain that I have the AA variant. rs4680 is also known as the worrier/warrior gene; those with the AA variant tend to handle stress poorly, have high anxiety, and are neurotic. Seeing as how I fall apart with the slightest bit of stress in my life and score 100% on every neuroticism test I take, I would be very surprised if I didn't have this variant of the gene. Also, my psychiatrist prescribed me Modafinil at 100 mg. I felt nothing and fell asleep shortly after taking it. He bumped it up to 200 mg -- still felt nothing. At 400 mg I just decided to quit taking it, because it literally had no effect whatsoever. Bit of a bummer, because I had high hopes for its effect on my ability to stay awake and focus. (Adderall, on the other hand, does produce a noticeable difference.)
gwern 10y ago
I should mention that I no longer think Rs4680 has anything to do with modafinil response. It was a candidate-gene study, so it was always in considerable doubt, and when I asked about Rs4680 in my modafinil survey (draft: http://www.gwern.net/Modafinil%20survey http://www.gwern.net/Modafinil%20survey ), 216 people had their Rs4680 status available and it did not correlate with their self-evaluations of how effective modafinil was for them (slightly the opposite, actually). This is ~10x bigger than the original study which was also based on self-report and if anything, you would expect a survey to be biased towards finding an effect since people know about the earlier report...

BurningFrog 10y ago

Modafinil helps with being awake, not with being focused. If your problem is not sleepiness, it probably won't address it.

driverdan 10y ago

> it wont make you any more focused or any smarter This depends on your brain chemistry. Most people I've talked to who have used Modafinil do have increased focus, just like other stimulants.