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I'd say he invented the genre and so had to include some simple and readily grasped tropes in order to give it mass appeal... Or perhaps it gained that mass app
by noonespecial 10y ago
I'd say he invented the genre and so had to include some simple and readily grasped tropes in order to give it mass appeal... Or perhaps it gained that mass appeal precielsely by incorporating what you criticize.
Don't sweat it, when you write your world changing, genre defining masterwork, you can make it as deep and morally ambiguous as you please.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 10y agoThere was plenty of fantasy fiction pre-Tolkien.
- yolesaber 10y agoNo clue why you are being downvoted. You are 100 percent correct. If anything, we are now saddled with Tolkien's dry tropes as the defining element of "fantasy".
- GFK_of_xmaspast 10y agoIt's just how things are on HN. Here are some pre-Tolkien authors people may be interested in: * Dunsany * Mirrlees * Hodgson * Eddison * Howard * Lovecraft * and there are more, just google them, these are just the ones that come to mind
- elihu 10y agoHow much of it do people still read, that you'd be likely to find in a typical bookstore? Aside from George MacDonald and things that are similar but not exactly the same as modern fantasy novels, such as various collections of fairy tales and epics like the Odyssey, I can't think of any examples. The Chronicles of Narnia were published in the 50's, whereas the Hobbit was released in 1937.
- na85 10y ago>Don't sweat it, when you write your world changing, genre defining masterwork, you can make it as deep and morally ambiguous as you please. I hate this criticism. The idea that unless you are an author of similar calibre, you are not fit to critique is a dangerous one. I haven't written an operating system, but I can still tell you that Windows 10 has numerous flaws. Should I STFU until I write my own?
- macintux 10y ago> I haven't written an operating system, but I can still tell you that Windows 10 has numerous flaws. Should I STFU until I write my own? If you started your critique of Windows 10 by calling Microsoft "Most overrated software shop of all time" and then proceeded with a few subjective, shallow criticisms with no detail, you might indeed be told that. And I'd wager Microsoft has nowhere near the adoration that Tolkien has among HN readers.
- yolesaber 10y ago>few subjective, shallow criticisms What criticism isn't subjective? I'd vouch that Tolkien is massively overrated as a writer. Perhaps not of all time, but up there along with Stephen King. I like Lord of the Rings just fine but it's not even close to my favorite work of written fantasy. His worlds are huge and beautiful, yes, especially his invented languages. But as works of readable fiction, they just fall so flat. My favorite part of the books are the indices because that's Tolkien's wheelhouse.
- philh 10y ago> If you started your critique of Windows 10 by calling Microsoft "Most overrated software shop of all time" and then proceeded with a few subjective, shallow criticisms with no detail, you might indeed be told that. How about saying "those are subjective, shallow criticisms with no detail" instead of "STFU and write your own operating system"? One of these criticisms actually has some bearing on the criticism it's criticizing. One does not.
- yolesaber 10y ago> I'd say he invented the genre No, he really didn't. Clark Ashton Smith, Lord Dunsany, Jack Vance, there plenty of writers and entire magazines devoted to fantasy. >Don't sweat it, when you write your world changing, genre defining masterwork, you can make it as deep and morally ambiguous as you please. Projecting much?
- okey 10y agoI agree he didn't invent the genre, although he certainly helped popularise and develop it. "plenty" perhaps oversells the genre pre-Tolkien, and also afaik Jack Vance didn't start writing until well after The Hobbit was published, so I'm not sure he belongs on your list - William Morris would have been a much better example as a direct precursor to both Tolkien and Lewis.