22 ms·

> Google runs the tracking and advertising infrastructure Oh, is that what this is all about? AMP caching is a mechanism to extend Google's lock-in on user tra

by josho 10y ago

> Google runs the tracking and advertising infrastructure Oh, is that what this is all about? AMP caching is a mechanism to extend Google's lock-in on user tracking. Smart, in an evil sort of way.

nostrademons 10y ago
Seems a little unlikely, given that Google Analytics is already on 50-60% of the Internet and many mobile apps. Analytics is a much more effective tracking mechanism than AMP.
- __derek__ 10y ago
  Google Analytics is supported by AMP.[1] [1]: https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/extended/amp-analytics.html https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/extended/amp-analy...
  - nostrademons 10y ago
    Right, but my point is that between Google Analytics, Chrome, and Doubleclick, Google is already tracking basically every pageview on the Internet. There's no need to introduce yet another product to accomplish this. I think a far more likely explanation is to take Google's statement that they want to accelerate the mobile web at face value. When people view pages faster, they view more of them, which in turn means that they search more, they click on more ads, and Google makes more money. This makes far more sense to me as a direct revenue play than as a surveillance/tracking play.
    - mcintyre1994 10y ago
      I think a lot of it is a response to Facebook's instant articles too. They were beginning to build up a story where the fastest version of the Web is via the Facebook app, not the browser and not search. It doesn't take a huge amount more before that story becomes a threat to search.
    - __derek__ 10y ago
      Oh, absolutely. This is 99% about keeping users inside of Google's walled garden (reserving 1% because cramforce seems like a good guy and genuinely interested in giving mobile users a faster, lighter-weight experience).
    - rhizome 10y ago
      80% of my browsing is in a browser that has had doubleclick blocked for years.
- themacguffinman 10y ago
  Also unlikely because AMP supports many other trackers as well (https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/extended/amp-analytics.html https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/extended/amp-analy...).
  - idlewords 10y ago
    The docs explain that "AMP analytics is specifically designed to measure once and report to many". Google's not trying to drive out other players, they're making sure they run the table. This way they see every request, and learn a lot about their rivals. Note also that the AMP ad spec warns that there are major changes to come. https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/extended/amp-ad.html https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/extended/amp-ad.ht...
    - nostrademons 10y ago
      My point elsewhere in this thread is that Google already knows all about their rivals. They're already seeing every HTTP request via Analytics, DoubleClick, Chrome, etc. They're already seeing which of their competitors are in use on which pages via the crawl. While I didn't know of any project to join & analyze this data while I was at Google (indeed, joining log sources required high-up approval because of the privacy implications), doing so would be technically trivial. They certainly don't need to launch a whole new product to get it.
      - idlewords 10y ago
        I take your point. I also believe the stated reasons for the project—to make the mobile web faster–are genuine. I believe that is the sincere motivation of many of the engineers working on it. But the ultimate purpose of this project is to preserve the status quo around ads and tracking. Bloat has made the current situation on mobile devices untenable, and people are turning to blockers as a solution. AMP is a way to get rid of the bloat without getting rid of the surveillance. Google bets (correctly, in my opinion) that people won't care about being monitored if the performance problems go away. Controlling the platform that does this will be useful to Google in the long run. For example, Google will be able to blacklist ad networks that don't meet their specifications. And Google can be sure theirs will always be the fastest game in town.

by josho 10y ago

> Google runs the tracking and advertising infrastructure Oh, is that what this is all about? AMP caching is a mechanism to extend Google's lock-in on user tracking. Smart, in an evil sort of way.

nostrademons 10y ago

Seems a little unlikely, given that Google Analytics is already on 50-60% of the Internet and many mobile apps. Analytics is a much more effective tracking mechanism than AMP.

__derek__ 10y ago
Google Analytics is supported by AMP.[1] [1]: https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/extended/amp-analytics.html https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/extended/amp-analy...
- nostrademons 10y ago
  Right, but my point is that between Google Analytics, Chrome, and Doubleclick, Google is already tracking basically every pageview on the Internet. There's no need to introduce yet another product to accomplish this. I think a far more likely explanation is to take Google's statement that they want to accelerate the mobile web at face value. When people view pages faster, they view more of them, which in turn means that they search more, they click on more ads, and Google makes more money. This makes far more sense to me as a direct revenue play than as a surveillance/tracking play.
  - mcintyre1994 10y ago
    I think a lot of it is a response to Facebook's instant articles too. They were beginning to build up a story where the fastest version of the Web is via the Facebook app, not the browser and not search. It doesn't take a huge amount more before that story becomes a threat to search.
  - __derek__ 10y ago
    Oh, absolutely. This is 99% about keeping users inside of Google's walled garden (reserving 1% because cramforce seems like a good guy and genuinely interested in giving mobile users a faster, lighter-weight experience).
  - rhizome 10y ago
    80% of my browsing is in a browser that has had doubleclick blocked for years.
themacguffinman 10y ago
Also unlikely because AMP supports many other trackers as well (https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/extended/amp-analytics.html https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/extended/amp-analy...).
- idlewords 10y ago
  The docs explain that "AMP analytics is specifically designed to measure once and report to many". Google's not trying to drive out other players, they're making sure they run the table. This way they see every request, and learn a lot about their rivals. Note also that the AMP ad spec warns that there are major changes to come. https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/extended/amp-ad.html https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/extended/amp-ad.ht...
  - nostrademons 10y ago
    My point elsewhere in this thread is that Google already knows all about their rivals. They're already seeing every HTTP request via Analytics, DoubleClick, Chrome, etc. They're already seeing which of their competitors are in use on which pages via the crawl. While I didn't know of any project to join & analyze this data while I was at Google (indeed, joining log sources required high-up approval because of the privacy implications), doing so would be technically trivial. They certainly don't need to launch a whole new product to get it.
    - idlewords 10y ago
      I take your point. I also believe the stated reasons for the project—to make the mobile web faster–are genuine. I believe that is the sincere motivation of many of the engineers working on it. But the ultimate purpose of this project is to preserve the status quo around ads and tracking. Bloat has made the current situation on mobile devices untenable, and people are turning to blockers as a solution. AMP is a way to get rid of the bloat without getting rid of the surveillance. Google bets (correctly, in my opinion) that people won't care about being monitored if the performance problems go away. Controlling the platform that does this will be useful to Google in the long run. For example, Google will be able to blacklist ad networks that don't meet their specifications. And Google can be sure theirs will always be the fastest game in town.