4 ms·

It worked for dock workers when containers were invented... but... these days there's quite a bit of nuance and a lot of money in it. Much like the legislation

It worked for dock workers when containers were invented... but... these days there's quite a bit of nuance and a lot of money in it. Much like the legislation around not letting commercials be louder than the main content was subverted, I'd expect companies to weasel around any attempt to keep automatable jobs in human hands.

M_Grey 10y ago
That's possible, but look at Japan where their automotive robots have been paying union dues for decades. It can happen, although it's probably a really bad idea for it to happen.
Animats 10y ago
"It worked for dock workers when containers were invented." There's a long description of that in "The Box", by Marc Levinson. It sort of worked for workers. But, in some major cases, the entire port moved. In San Francisco, the Port of San Francisco essentially shut down as a freight operation and the container traffic went to a new container port in Oakland. In London, the container traffic went to a new non-union port on the east coast, and the huge London dock complex was abandoned. (Now it's housing and the finance industry.) The Longshoreman's Union in San Francisco negotiated a "guaranteed annual income" deal, but only for two years ending in 1977.[1] They still have a good pay rate for full "class A" longshoremen: $36.68 plus various bonuses and shift differentials. It's possible to make $150K a year as a longshoreman. And you probably don't have to do heavy lifting. But there aren't that many of them left. [1] http://archive.ilwu.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/19750207.pdf http://archive.ilwu.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/19750207....
- nickff 10y ago
  That book was good, and I agree that it worked out for longshoremen, but consumers are the ones who've paid for their job security and high salaries.
  - vkou 10y ago
    Consumers would otherwise have had to pay some other amount for their unemployment, poverty, and reliance on handouts. Laying all of them off also has costs, both financial and human. If every human being was replaced by a robot, the cost savings to consumers would be enormous. There would also not be any consumers, as nobody would have money to spend.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    Consumers and businesses are always going to pay for those who don't work, it's just the mechanism by which we transfer that wealth. That's how social safety nets work.

M_Grey 10y ago

That's possible, but look at Japan where their automotive robots have been paying union dues for decades. It can happen, although it's probably a really bad idea for it to happen.

Animats 10y ago

"It worked for dock workers when containers were invented." There's a long description of that in "The Box", by Marc Levinson. It sort of worked for workers. But, in some major cases, the entire port moved. In San Francisco, the Port of San Francisco essentially shut down as a freight operation and the container traffic went to a new container port in Oakland. In London, the container traffic went to a new non-union port on the east coast, and the huge London dock complex was abandoned. (Now it's housing and the finance industry.) The Longshoreman's Union in San Francisco negotiated a "guaranteed annual income" deal, but only for two years ending in 1977.[1] They still have a good pay rate for full "class A" longshoremen: $36.68 plus various bonuses and shift differentials. It's possible to make $150K a year as a longshoreman. And you probably don't have to do heavy lifting. But there aren't that many of them left. [1] http://archive.ilwu.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/19750207.pdf http://archive.ilwu.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/19750207....

nickff 10y ago
That book was good, and I agree that it worked out for longshoremen, but consumers are the ones who've paid for their job security and high salaries.
- vkou 10y ago
  Consumers would otherwise have had to pay some other amount for their unemployment, poverty, and reliance on handouts. Laying all of them off also has costs, both financial and human. If every human being was replaced by a robot, the cost savings to consumers would be enormous. There would also not be any consumers, as nobody would have money to spend.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Consumers and businesses are always going to pay for those who don't work, it's just the mechanism by which we transfer that wealth. That's how social safety nets work.