5 ms·

JavaScript isn't ever going away, is it?

9 points by resmote 10y ago

Will JavaScript ever be removed from programming, ever? Is there any hope for this at all?

Piskvorrr 10y ago
Well, consider COBOL. Once the be-all-end-all of programming languages; now mostly forgotten, but still lurks out there: in production, yet largely out of sight.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Well, consider COBOL. Once the be-all-end-all of programming languages No, it was once dominant in a particular niche -- it was enterprise's Java long before Java was -- but it was never the "be-all-end-all" of programming languages.
VOYD 10y ago
Not until something better (easy learning curve) takes its place.
_RPM 10y ago
As long as there is a JavaScript runtime available it's not going to go extinct. However, it may go obsolete. The term "removed" needs to be defined here.
splintercell 10y ago
JavaScript isn't going anywhere that soon. However, I must ask you, if you realize that it isn't going anywhere, couldn't you spend your energy and resources in one of the better transpiled languages like PureScript, Elm, or Scala.js (I'm intentionally not including supersets of JS).
BjoernKW 10y ago
"Ever" is a long time but if by that you mean "in our lifetime" then - barring the singularity and everyone technically living forever - no, JavaScript probably won't ever go away. JavaScript, especially in its most recent iterations, is a decent language with useful properties (non-blocking; can be used purely functionally and in an object-oriented or procedural manner) and a fast runtime. It's especially suitable to the task it's mostly used for: Web app development. I can hardly think of any programming language that'd be more appropriate in that context right now. The only real downside is that JavaScript isn't a typed language and there are options like TypeScript that while perhaps not completely solving that particular problem at least alleviate it to a large extent. Who knows? Maybe, the next version of JavaScript will provide a type system similar to TypeScript, which given the latter's adoption and support by several large companies isn't entirely unlikely.
EJTH 10y ago
You can always use a transpiler if you don't want to use javascript!
combatentropy 10y ago
Why do people hate JavaScript? Is it because you're mixing it up with the DOM, especially the DOM of Internet Explorer of yesteryear? If so, scripting IE 6's DOM with Python would have been just as perilous. Is it because you're mixing it up with Node.js, and its asynchronous complexity? If so, JavaScript doesn't have to work that way. And other languages could have been used the same way. Say, Node.py or Node.rb. Conversely, JavaScript could be framed in a normal, FastCGI apparatus, where everything runs more or less straightforwardly. Is it because you're mixing it up with the messiness of NPM? See above. Is it because JavaScript is dynamically typed, or because it has some other characteristic that seems less serious than languages like C, Java, or Go? If so, why not the same hatred for Python, Ruby, Perl, and Lua? I myself like JavaScript's syntax more than all of the other scripting languages. I think the syntax for object literals and array literals is pleasantly terse. So is the dot notation for attributes. Combine that with how functions are first class, and you can chain them with dots instead of nesting them in parentheses. I like the new arrow syntax for functions, making the code even simpler.
- hacknat 10y ago
  JavaScript was the first language that I learned, and I really got to know it. I could tell you the ins and outs of prototypal inheritance, how function declarations are hoisted, but expressions are not, how the only scope creator is a function, variable declarations are hoisted, etc. I don't hate JavaScript, but I do dislike it. After advancing in my career and becoming a back end engineer I strongly prefer the type-safety of strongly typed, typically compiled, languages. I've worked in large dynamically typed code bases and I've worked in large strongly typed code bases. I have loathed every refactor I have had to do in dynamically typed languages. I just did a big one for a Python code base and I caught more issues and dependencies using grep and emacs than using the IDE and PyCharm. I have about 25 sizeable unit tests for this code base just to check flow control and dumb things like typos. I wouldn't need these unit tests in a compiled language. JavaScript is the most popular language in the world. It's going to get a lot of hate and love. You contend that it gets disproportionate hate compared to Python and Ruby, but I disagree. I dislike all dynamically typed languages (save bash), and I think many people feel the same way. I honestly fail to see what they buy me. If it's short and sweet I'll do it in bash, if it's any longer than what bash can handle I'll write the few extra lines of code in Go, for its safety and performance. If I have to write browser code, I sigh and get on with my life.
sigjuice 10y ago
Do you know of any mainstream language that has been "removed"?
- bbcbasic 10y ago
  J++
- yen223 10y ago
  What's Delphi's market share like?
  - sigjuice 10y ago
    Not sure, but far from being "removed". According to Wikipedia Stable release Delphi 10.1 Berlin / April 20, 2016; 4 months ago
ajeet_dhaliwal 10y ago
It wasn't love at first site (pun intended). Over a span of about 12 years it's gone from being my most hated language to my most loved. So I hope it sticks around. Won't go into details but JSLint, Crockford, Node, ES 5, 6 all really helped.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

9 points by resmote 10y ago

Will JavaScript ever be removed from programming, ever? Is there any hope for this at all?

Well, consider COBOL. Once the be-all-end-all of programming languages; now mostly forgotten, but still lurks out there: in production, yet largely out of sight.

dragonwriter 10y ago
> Well, consider COBOL. Once the be-all-end-all of programming languages No, it was once dominant in a particular niche -- it was enterprise's Java long before Java was -- but it was never the "be-all-end-all" of programming languages.

VOYD 10y ago

Not until something better (easy learning curve) takes its place.

_RPM 10y ago

As long as there is a JavaScript runtime available it's not going to go extinct. However, it may go obsolete. The term "removed" needs to be defined here.

splintercell 10y ago

JavaScript isn't going anywhere that soon. However, I must ask you, if you realize that it isn't going anywhere, couldn't you spend your energy and resources in one of the better transpiled languages like PureScript, Elm, or Scala.js (I'm intentionally not including supersets of JS).

BjoernKW 10y ago

"Ever" is a long time but if by that you mean "in our lifetime" then - barring the singularity and everyone technically living forever - no, JavaScript probably won't ever go away. JavaScript, especially in its most recent iterations, is a decent language with useful properties (non-blocking; can be used purely functionally and in an object-oriented or procedural manner) and a fast runtime. It's especially suitable to the task it's mostly used for: Web app development. I can hardly think of any programming language that'd be more appropriate in that context right now. The only real downside is that JavaScript isn't a typed language and there are options like TypeScript that while perhaps not completely solving that particular problem at least alleviate it to a large extent. Who knows? Maybe, the next version of JavaScript will provide a type system similar to TypeScript, which given the latter's adoption and support by several large companies isn't entirely unlikely.

EJTH 10y ago

You can always use a transpiler if you don't want to use javascript!

combatentropy 10y ago

Why do people hate JavaScript? Is it because you're mixing it up with the DOM, especially the DOM of Internet Explorer of yesteryear? If so, scripting IE 6's DOM with Python would have been just as perilous. Is it because you're mixing it up with Node.js, and its asynchronous complexity? If so, JavaScript doesn't have to work that way. And other languages could have been used the same way. Say, Node.py or Node.rb. Conversely, JavaScript could be framed in a normal, FastCGI apparatus, where everything runs more or less straightforwardly. Is it because you're mixing it up with the messiness of NPM? See above. Is it because JavaScript is dynamically typed, or because it has some other characteristic that seems less serious than languages like C, Java, or Go? If so, why not the same hatred for Python, Ruby, Perl, and Lua? I myself like JavaScript's syntax more than all of the other scripting languages. I think the syntax for object literals and array literals is pleasantly terse. So is the dot notation for attributes. Combine that with how functions are first class, and you can chain them with dots instead of nesting them in parentheses. I like the new arrow syntax for functions, making the code even simpler.

hacknat 10y ago
JavaScript was the first language that I learned, and I really got to know it. I could tell you the ins and outs of prototypal inheritance, how function declarations are hoisted, but expressions are not, how the only scope creator is a function, variable declarations are hoisted, etc. I don't hate JavaScript, but I do dislike it. After advancing in my career and becoming a back end engineer I strongly prefer the type-safety of strongly typed, typically compiled, languages. I've worked in large dynamically typed code bases and I've worked in large strongly typed code bases. I have loathed every refactor I have had to do in dynamically typed languages. I just did a big one for a Python code base and I caught more issues and dependencies using grep and emacs than using the IDE and PyCharm. I have about 25 sizeable unit tests for this code base just to check flow control and dumb things like typos. I wouldn't need these unit tests in a compiled language. JavaScript is the most popular language in the world. It's going to get a lot of hate and love. You contend that it gets disproportionate hate compared to Python and Ruby, but I disagree. I dislike all dynamically typed languages (save bash), and I think many people feel the same way. I honestly fail to see what they buy me. If it's short and sweet I'll do it in bash, if it's any longer than what bash can handle I'll write the few extra lines of code in Go, for its safety and performance. If I have to write browser code, I sigh and get on with my life.

sigjuice 10y ago

Do you know of any mainstream language that has been "removed"?

bbcbasic 10y ago
J++
yen223 10y ago
What's Delphi's market share like?
- sigjuice 10y ago
  Not sure, but far from being "removed". According to Wikipedia Stable release Delphi 10.1 Berlin / April 20, 2016; 4 months ago

ajeet_dhaliwal 10y ago

It wasn't love at first site (pun intended). Over a span of about 12 years it's gone from being my most hated language to my most loved. So I hope it sticks around. Won't go into details but JSLint, Crockford, Node, ES 5, 6 all really helped.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]