4 ms·

> autonomous vehicles should definitely not be legislated on a state-by-state basis. Why do you say that? I have no opinion either way, just curious

Filligree 10y ago
Cars move. Splitting the laws by state would mean also splitting the market, and allowing cars on the road which would be illegal to e.g. drive into Texas. Really, it should be international.
- nerdponx 10y ago
  But this kind of fragmentation already exists today with different driving laws between states. A legal student driver in one state might not be allowed to drive in another. Now that I'm thinking about it, it's strange that vehicles are regulated at the state not federal level. They're a big component in interstate commerce, and therefore ought to be within the jurisdiction of Congress to regulate, even under a relatively strict reading of the Constitution.
  - oldmanjay 10y ago
    Vehicles are regulated at the federal level. That doesn't preclude states from applying additional regulation, such as the California emission standards.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    A lot of safety features and emissions requirements are regulated at the federal level.
  - Someone1234 10y ago
    And it is a massive problem. For example vehicle window tinting laws vary wildly from state to state (and arguably they're more liberal in states that get hotter, and more restrictive in states with gang issues) so you can own a vehicle that is legally tinted in your home state, but gets ticketed when it crosses a state border. Daylight running lights are another example, some states require them, while others do not. So you can buy a brand new vehicle which could get ticketed since it lacks DRLs.
    - ensignavenger 10y ago
      Which US states require DRL now?
      - ensignavenger 10y ago
        To answer my own question, according to Wikipedia: "Several states on the Eastern seaboard, the Southeast, and Gulf Coast (except Texas) have enforced vehicular laws since the early 1990s that require headlights to be switched on when windshield wipers are in use. This prompted the phasing in of DRLs in the affected states (from Maine to Florida including Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama)." So it appears that DRL aren't required, but frequently standard equipment in states that require headlamps on if windshield wipers are on... Wikipedia does not list any states requiring use of headlamps all the time, though.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      Are there any states where turning on the headlights wouldn't satisfy the law? Using headlights all the time probably won't kill the bulbs in a year, but none the less, is $40 a year really a massive problem? Similarly, most people don't care about tint. Those that do but are agonized about being able to travel to other states can simply figure out the maximum allowed in the region they plan on traveling in. I guess that reaches the level of irritating, but what are the massive consequences for Joe Driver if he can't darken his windows?
    - maxwell 10y ago
      > window tinting laws vary wildly from state to state Looks like they're strictest in Alaska, California, D.C., Delaware, Iowa, New York, Pennsylvania, and Rhode Island. http://tintlaws.com http://tintlaws.com http://tinting-laws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/tint-percentages.jpg http://tinting-laws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/tint-perc...
- 0003 10y ago
  I think it actually has the effect that a state like CA or TX becomes the de facto regulatory-maker just based on size of the car market.
  - HillaryBriss 10y ago
    yes. it reminds me of California car exhaust/emissions standards which, AFAIK, became the national standard eventually.
  - douche 10y ago
    Yup, California ruins everything for the rest of us. They are the reason we can't have nice things. One notable example are the CA regulations on gasoline cans, which have driven out the design that worked well and replaced it with "spill-proof" designs that are terrible and, ironically, much easier to spill with.
    - pyre 10y ago
      Well, worse (and more troubling) is the effect on textbooks used in schools.
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  I was under the impression that most of the requirements only applied to registering a car in that State not operating the vehicle?? So, for example, NY requires yearly safety inspections and you'll get a ticket if your inspection lapsed. But you don't have to get a safety inspection to drive in NY if your car is registered in a state that doesn't require safety inspections. I could be mostly off base on this one. Though some laws are so local sometimes it's impossible for an out of towner to know the local laws like going right on red is, as far as I know, illegal in NYC but legal... Everywhere else? How does someone from Texas supposed to know that?
  - loeg 10y ago
    Right. And that fragmentation is probably a bad thing.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    >Though some laws are so local sometimes it's impossible for an out of towner to know the local laws like going right on red is, as far as I know, illegal in NYC but legal... Everywhere else? How does someone from Texas supposed to know that? You've pretty much picked an outlier. And I might be inclined to argue that someone from Texas trying to drive in Manhattan for the first time has other problems :-) There are a few other things like whether you can pass on the right on an interstate and the aforementioned when headlights need to be on (though I often see this last point signed). But these are usually getting into corner cases and don't really affect how the average person has to approach driving.
    - jcranmer 10y ago
      It should also be mentioned that many of the divergent cases tend to be bad ideas for safety reasons anyways (passing on the right, using your cell phone when driving, even right-turn-on-red--don't do that in pedestrian-heavy areas). Places with divergent laws make some effort to inform visitors of the divergence--you'll sometimes see electronic noticeboards saying that using your cell phone is illegal here, and sometimes permanent ones too (e.g, on entry into Virginia on interstates, you are immediately informed that radar detectors are illegal).
- agumonkey 10y ago
  I'm now wondering a world without left or right turning wheel. Maybe even a right handed UK ?
- randyrand 10y ago
  States rights is more important for progress than you might think. Each state is an incubator for ideas. single choice monopolies impede progress, whether governmental or corporate. It's better to have states naturally group together than to force it with some top down measure.

Filligree 10y ago

Cars move. Splitting the laws by state would mean also splitting the market, and allowing cars on the road which would be illegal to e.g. drive into Texas. Really, it should be international.

nerdponx 10y ago
But this kind of fragmentation already exists today with different driving laws between states. A legal student driver in one state might not be allowed to drive in another. Now that I'm thinking about it, it's strange that vehicles are regulated at the state not federal level. They're a big component in interstate commerce, and therefore ought to be within the jurisdiction of Congress to regulate, even under a relatively strict reading of the Constitution.
- oldmanjay 10y ago
  Vehicles are regulated at the federal level. That doesn't preclude states from applying additional regulation, such as the California emission standards.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  A lot of safety features and emissions requirements are regulated at the federal level.
- Someone1234 10y ago
  And it is a massive problem. For example vehicle window tinting laws vary wildly from state to state (and arguably they're more liberal in states that get hotter, and more restrictive in states with gang issues) so you can own a vehicle that is legally tinted in your home state, but gets ticketed when it crosses a state border. Daylight running lights are another example, some states require them, while others do not. So you can buy a brand new vehicle which could get ticketed since it lacks DRLs.
  - ensignavenger 10y ago
    Which US states require DRL now?
    - ensignavenger 10y ago
      To answer my own question, according to Wikipedia: "Several states on the Eastern seaboard, the Southeast, and Gulf Coast (except Texas) have enforced vehicular laws since the early 1990s that require headlights to be switched on when windshield wipers are in use. This prompted the phasing in of DRLs in the affected states (from Maine to Florida including Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama)." So it appears that DRL aren't required, but frequently standard equipment in states that require headlamps on if windshield wipers are on... Wikipedia does not list any states requiring use of headlamps all the time, though.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    Are there any states where turning on the headlights wouldn't satisfy the law? Using headlights all the time probably won't kill the bulbs in a year, but none the less, is $40 a year really a massive problem? Similarly, most people don't care about tint. Those that do but are agonized about being able to travel to other states can simply figure out the maximum allowed in the region they plan on traveling in. I guess that reaches the level of irritating, but what are the massive consequences for Joe Driver if he can't darken his windows?
  - maxwell 10y ago
    > window tinting laws vary wildly from state to state Looks like they're strictest in Alaska, California, D.C., Delaware, Iowa, New York, Pennsylvania, and Rhode Island. http://tintlaws.com http://tintlaws.com http://tinting-laws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/tint-percentages.jpg http://tinting-laws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/tint-perc...
0003 10y ago
I think it actually has the effect that a state like CA or TX becomes the de facto regulatory-maker just based on size of the car market.
- HillaryBriss 10y ago
  yes. it reminds me of California car exhaust/emissions standards which, AFAIK, became the national standard eventually.
- douche 10y ago
  Yup, California ruins everything for the rest of us. They are the reason we can't have nice things. One notable example are the CA regulations on gasoline cans, which have driven out the design that worked well and replaced it with "spill-proof" designs that are terrible and, ironically, much easier to spill with.
  - pyre 10y ago
    Well, worse (and more troubling) is the effect on textbooks used in schools.
nommm-nommm 10y ago
I was under the impression that most of the requirements only applied to registering a car in that State not operating the vehicle?? So, for example, NY requires yearly safety inspections and you'll get a ticket if your inspection lapsed. But you don't have to get a safety inspection to drive in NY if your car is registered in a state that doesn't require safety inspections. I could be mostly off base on this one. Though some laws are so local sometimes it's impossible for an out of towner to know the local laws like going right on red is, as far as I know, illegal in NYC but legal... Everywhere else? How does someone from Texas supposed to know that?
- loeg 10y ago
  Right. And that fragmentation is probably a bad thing.
- ghaff 10y ago
  >Though some laws are so local sometimes it's impossible for an out of towner to know the local laws like going right on red is, as far as I know, illegal in NYC but legal... Everywhere else? How does someone from Texas supposed to know that? You've pretty much picked an outlier. And I might be inclined to argue that someone from Texas trying to drive in Manhattan for the first time has other problems :-) There are a few other things like whether you can pass on the right on an interstate and the aforementioned when headlights need to be on (though I often see this last point signed). But these are usually getting into corner cases and don't really affect how the average person has to approach driving.
  - jcranmer 10y ago
    It should also be mentioned that many of the divergent cases tend to be bad ideas for safety reasons anyways (passing on the right, using your cell phone when driving, even right-turn-on-red--don't do that in pedestrian-heavy areas). Places with divergent laws make some effort to inform visitors of the divergence--you'll sometimes see electronic noticeboards saying that using your cell phone is illegal here, and sometimes permanent ones too (e.g, on entry into Virginia on interstates, you are immediately informed that radar detectors are illegal).
agumonkey 10y ago
I'm now wondering a world without left or right turning wheel. Maybe even a right handed UK ?
randyrand 10y ago
States rights is more important for progress than you might think. Each state is an incubator for ideas. single choice monopolies impede progress, whether governmental or corporate. It's better to have states naturally group together than to force it with some top down measure.