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Interesting side note: The words "Awkward" and "Creepy" don't exist in German and there are no direct or inderect equivalents. It goes so far that it is cultura

by sprash 10y ago

Interesting side note: The words "Awkward" and "Creepy" don't exist in German and there are no direct or inderect equivalents. It goes so far that it is culturally impossible to have creepy or awkward behaviour.

detaro 10y ago
"creepy" has been adopted into younger people's language. And while there may be no direct translation that has all connotations of the words, I believe the concepts expressed with other words are basically the same. Do you have an article/other reference discussing the differences?
- sprash 10y ago
  I think it is well explained here, including additional links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuCy_UkKBcs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuCy_UkKBcs
  - pluma 10y ago
    Don't get me wrong, I like her enthusiasm and some of her videos are fairly entertaining, but she tends to get things wrong (or at least overly simplistic). Her experience of Germany seems to be largely filtered by living in Munich and the kind of people she's talking to (i.e. her "filter bubble"). At times it seems like she's basing entire points around individual conversations with one or two friends at a pub. "Dibs" -> "Meins". "I call dibs on the last cookie" isn't one word either, so of course you wouldn't use one word in German either. However if you put it like that, you'd just say "Das ist meiner". But that'd be rude, which is why you're more likely to hear "Möchte noch jemand den Keks?" ("Does anybody want this remaining cookie?"). This isn't a translation problem, it's a culture problem. "Creepy" -> "Gruselig". A person can be "gruselig". It means exactly the same thing. Yes, there are additional meanings to the German word that don't match the English word and there are additional meanings to the English word that don't match the German word but that's how language works. Good luck finding a single word pair in both languages that matches exactly -- it happens, but it's the exception, not the rule. "Backwash". That seems oddly specific. I guess "Sabber" ("drool") would be the German word used in the described scenario but again her example seems fairly rude. If you don't want to share someone's drink, you don't tell them it's because you don't want their spit in your mouth (because that would imply there's something disgusting about how they drink or that they're somehow unhygienic). "Awkward". Again, this is a cultural thing. There is not one German word for each meaning because the different meanings are lumped together in English but not in German. A social faux pas is "peinlich" (my favourite slang equivalent of the valley girl steoretype "Awkward!" is "Schwierig!", which in this sense doesn't translate well either -- it literally means "difficult"). "Cooties". Again, culture. There is no German word because this isn't a thing in German. "Attitude" -> "Einstellung". "Having an attitude" is not one word, in fact it strongly suggests an omission (because on face value the sentence is trivially true about most people). "Don't give me an attitude" is not one word either and I'm pretty sure "Stell dich nicht so an" (or even "Reiss dich zusammen") is a reasonable equivalent -- an armchair psychologist might observe something about the German version being more about the person demonstrating the behaviour and the English version more about the person inconvenienced by the behaviour but armchair psychology is rarely meaningful. "Jaywalker" -> "Rotgänger". Yeah, there's not really a verb for it in German but again this seems awfully specific. From her companion video on German words: "Schunkeln". This is kinda like arguing there's no English word for "Umlaut". Why should English have more accurate words for this if it isn't a thing in the English-speaking world? Also, how familiar you are with this term as a German speaker strongly depends on where in Germany you live, though I'd wager few Germans don't know it at all. She's in Munich and Schunkeln suits itself to Oktoberfest because of the beer benches, so she'll probably be exposed to it a lot more than the average German. "Kummerspeck". This is fairly specific and only works because "Speck" is already a slang word for (belly) fat (not even limited to overweight people). I'd wager it's actually originally a play on words: "Babyspeck" is "baby fat" which toddlers typically lose as they grow up, so "grief fat" would be something you typically lose as you stop grieving). I don't see any obvious reason "grief fat" isn't a word in English. "Schnapsidee" -> "brain fart". Yes, it's not a direct translation, but the literal meaning is almost never intended for "Schnapsidee" either. It's just a "stupid idea". And of course "brain fart" can be more general whereas "Schnapsidee" usually refers to a specific plan that had easily predictable flaws. "Treppenwitz" -> "fridge logic" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic). I don't even know what this word specifically is supposed to be. I guess this is a Bavarian thing? I've never come across this word in 30 years. Yes, the TV Tropes term is not an exact match but it is the exact same idea. "Verschlimmbessern". Yes, this one is originally a pun ("verschlimmern" + "verbessern"). Puns don't translate well. This is probably a genuine example but the concept exists in both languages -- I'm pretty sure there's already some obscure slang word for this I'm not aware of (other than "fixing" -- with the scare quotes). Bonus: "Gemütlichkeit" -> "Comfy"/"Cozy". Yes, the German word can also be applied to people in the sense of "relaxed". I think the kids these days use "chill" in pretty much the same way (i.e. things and people can be "chill")? As you can see, some of these don't have exact matches but a claim like "Germans have no word for Creepy so creepiness doesn't exist for Germans" is incredibly daft.
WillPostForFood 10y ago
Near the beginning of the article it mentions the german word "unheimlichkeit" to mean creepy or uncanny. Is that not a word you are familiar with, or not the meaning you associate with it? There is are a lot of other German touch points in the article as well.
- sprash 10y ago
  "Unheimlichkeit" means more like scary. Scary is not the same as creepy obviously. Also "Unheimlichkeit" is not really a word but a "Substantiviertes Adjektiv" of "unheimlich". There you already can see that you have to bend over backwards to find something with similar meaning. And even then "Unheimlichkeit" doesn't really quiet hit it.
  - detaro 10y ago
    Come on, "Unheimlichkeit" is obviously derived from "unheimlich", and thus the same word type as "creepyness", derived from "creepy". And "unheimlich" is in many contexts further from "scary" than from "creepy", with "scary" more describing something as outright fear-inducing than the other two.
pluma 10y ago
Creepy ~= Gruselig/Unheimlich Awkward ~= Komisch/Unbeholfen And the concepts totally do translate to German. A lot of people would describe a "creepy guy" as "gruselig" in German. Actually we've imported the word "Freak" to describe these people. As an aside: there was a German copy of the "Beauty and the Geek" show that was far more dehumanising and called "Das Model und der Freak" where the entire concept was that "pretty" c-list celebrity women would give a "nerdy loser" a makeover to turn him into a generic alpha male womanisers. The entire concept was "here's this loser weirdo no girl would ever date, let's make him conventionally attractive and exterminate his pre-existing personality in its entirety". The sole point of the show was ridiculing these "weirdos" and their strange hobbies -- of course the exploitable traits were exaggerated through bad scripting and heavy editing. A pet peeve of mine is that until recently the words "geek" and "nerd" have often been replaced by "Freak" as movies are translated to German, drastically skewing the intended meaning ("Freak" is almost always an insult). Recently "Geek" and "Nerd" seem to have entered the German language (especially the former, mostly via gaming and social media) so hopefully that's coming to an end.
- sprash 10y ago
  > Creepy ~= Gruselig/Unheimlich > Awkward ~= Komisch/Unbeholfen Those translations don't really contain that additional negativity of "Creepy/Awkward". It is hard really pinpoint it though. > there was a German copy of the "Beauty and the Geek" show that was far more dehumanising and called "Das Model und der Freak" where the entire concept was that "pretty" c-list celebrity women would give a "nerdy loser" a makeover to turn him into a generic alpha male womanisers. But that was so much more over the top. Those guys were more like "eklig" (disgusting).
  - detaro 10y ago
    To me the range of negativity (from let's say "creepy Halloween decoration" to "that creepy old guy" or "a jar full of babys' fingers") is similar in both languages, and something that has to be inferred from context. "Creepy" covers the disgusting axis a bit more, but eklig/ekelhaft covers that area easily if necessary. The fact that "creepy" is used in German language sometimes points towards that the terms are not exactly identical, but it's a tiny difference and in no way big enough to say that the concept doesn't exist. It's just a shorthand for something that otherwise might require a modifier or explanation, + using English is cool.

by sprash 10y ago

detaro 10y ago

"creepy" has been adopted into younger people's language. And while there may be no direct translation that has all connotations of the words, I believe the concepts expressed with other words are basically the same. Do you have an article/other reference discussing the differences?

sprash 10y ago
I think it is well explained here, including additional links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuCy_UkKBcs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuCy_UkKBcs
- pluma 10y ago
  Don't get me wrong, I like her enthusiasm and some of her videos are fairly entertaining, but she tends to get things wrong (or at least overly simplistic). Her experience of Germany seems to be largely filtered by living in Munich and the kind of people she's talking to (i.e. her "filter bubble"). At times it seems like she's basing entire points around individual conversations with one or two friends at a pub. "Dibs" -> "Meins". "I call dibs on the last cookie" isn't one word either, so of course you wouldn't use one word in German either. However if you put it like that, you'd just say "Das ist meiner". But that'd be rude, which is why you're more likely to hear "Möchte noch jemand den Keks?" ("Does anybody want this remaining cookie?"). This isn't a translation problem, it's a culture problem. "Creepy" -> "Gruselig". A person can be "gruselig". It means exactly the same thing. Yes, there are additional meanings to the German word that don't match the English word and there are additional meanings to the English word that don't match the German word but that's how language works. Good luck finding a single word pair in both languages that matches exactly -- it happens, but it's the exception, not the rule. "Backwash". That seems oddly specific. I guess "Sabber" ("drool") would be the German word used in the described scenario but again her example seems fairly rude. If you don't want to share someone's drink, you don't tell them it's because you don't want their spit in your mouth (because that would imply there's something disgusting about how they drink or that they're somehow unhygienic). "Awkward". Again, this is a cultural thing. There is not one German word for each meaning because the different meanings are lumped together in English but not in German. A social faux pas is "peinlich" (my favourite slang equivalent of the valley girl steoretype "Awkward!" is "Schwierig!", which in this sense doesn't translate well either -- it literally means "difficult"). "Cooties". Again, culture. There is no German word because this isn't a thing in German. "Attitude" -> "Einstellung". "Having an attitude" is not one word, in fact it strongly suggests an omission (because on face value the sentence is trivially true about most people). "Don't give me an attitude" is not one word either and I'm pretty sure "Stell dich nicht so an" (or even "Reiss dich zusammen") is a reasonable equivalent -- an armchair psychologist might observe something about the German version being more about the person demonstrating the behaviour and the English version more about the person inconvenienced by the behaviour but armchair psychology is rarely meaningful. "Jaywalker" -> "Rotgänger". Yeah, there's not really a verb for it in German but again this seems awfully specific. From her companion video on German words: "Schunkeln". This is kinda like arguing there's no English word for "Umlaut". Why should English have more accurate words for this if it isn't a thing in the English-speaking world? Also, how familiar you are with this term as a German speaker strongly depends on where in Germany you live, though I'd wager few Germans don't know it at all. She's in Munich and Schunkeln suits itself to Oktoberfest because of the beer benches, so she'll probably be exposed to it a lot more than the average German. "Kummerspeck". This is fairly specific and only works because "Speck" is already a slang word for (belly) fat (not even limited to overweight people). I'd wager it's actually originally a play on words: "Babyspeck" is "baby fat" which toddlers typically lose as they grow up, so "grief fat" would be something you typically lose as you stop grieving). I don't see any obvious reason "grief fat" isn't a word in English. "Schnapsidee" -> "brain fart". Yes, it's not a direct translation, but the literal meaning is almost never intended for "Schnapsidee" either. It's just a "stupid idea". And of course "brain fart" can be more general whereas "Schnapsidee" usually refers to a specific plan that had easily predictable flaws. "Treppenwitz" -> "fridge logic" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic). I don't even know what this word specifically is supposed to be. I guess this is a Bavarian thing? I've never come across this word in 30 years. Yes, the TV Tropes term is not an exact match but it is the exact same idea. "Verschlimmbessern". Yes, this one is originally a pun ("verschlimmern" + "verbessern"). Puns don't translate well. This is probably a genuine example but the concept exists in both languages -- I'm pretty sure there's already some obscure slang word for this I'm not aware of (other than "fixing" -- with the scare quotes). Bonus: "Gemütlichkeit" -> "Comfy"/"Cozy". Yes, the German word can also be applied to people in the sense of "relaxed". I think the kids these days use "chill" in pretty much the same way (i.e. things and people can be "chill")? As you can see, some of these don't have exact matches but a claim like "Germans have no word for Creepy so creepiness doesn't exist for Germans" is incredibly daft.

WillPostForFood 10y ago

Near the beginning of the article it mentions the german word "unheimlichkeit" to mean creepy or uncanny. Is that not a word you are familiar with, or not the meaning you associate with it? There is are a lot of other German touch points in the article as well.

sprash 10y ago
"Unheimlichkeit" means more like scary. Scary is not the same as creepy obviously. Also "Unheimlichkeit" is not really a word but a "Substantiviertes Adjektiv" of "unheimlich". There you already can see that you have to bend over backwards to find something with similar meaning. And even then "Unheimlichkeit" doesn't really quiet hit it.
- detaro 10y ago
  Come on, "Unheimlichkeit" is obviously derived from "unheimlich", and thus the same word type as "creepyness", derived from "creepy". And "unheimlich" is in many contexts further from "scary" than from "creepy", with "scary" more describing something as outright fear-inducing than the other two.

pluma 10y ago

Creepy ~= Gruselig/Unheimlich Awkward ~= Komisch/Unbeholfen And the concepts totally do translate to German. A lot of people would describe a "creepy guy" as "gruselig" in German. Actually we've imported the word "Freak" to describe these people. As an aside: there was a German copy of the "Beauty and the Geek" show that was far more dehumanising and called "Das Model und der Freak" where the entire concept was that "pretty" c-list celebrity women would give a "nerdy loser" a makeover to turn him into a generic alpha male womanisers. The entire concept was "here's this loser weirdo no girl would ever date, let's make him conventionally attractive and exterminate his pre-existing personality in its entirety". The sole point of the show was ridiculing these "weirdos" and their strange hobbies -- of course the exploitable traits were exaggerated through bad scripting and heavy editing. A pet peeve of mine is that until recently the words "geek" and "nerd" have often been replaced by "Freak" as movies are translated to German, drastically skewing the intended meaning ("Freak" is almost always an insult). Recently "Geek" and "Nerd" seem to have entered the German language (especially the former, mostly via gaming and social media) so hopefully that's coming to an end.

sprash 10y ago
> Creepy ~= Gruselig/Unheimlich > Awkward ~= Komisch/Unbeholfen Those translations don't really contain that additional negativity of "Creepy/Awkward". It is hard really pinpoint it though. > there was a German copy of the "Beauty and the Geek" show that was far more dehumanising and called "Das Model und der Freak" where the entire concept was that "pretty" c-list celebrity women would give a "nerdy loser" a makeover to turn him into a generic alpha male womanisers. But that was so much more over the top. Those guys were more like "eklig" (disgusting).
- detaro 10y ago
  To me the range of negativity (from let's say "creepy Halloween decoration" to "that creepy old guy" or "a jar full of babys' fingers") is similar in both languages, and something that has to be inferred from context. "Creepy" covers the disgusting axis a bit more, but eklig/ekelhaft covers that area easily if necessary. The fact that "creepy" is used in German language sometimes points towards that the terms are not exactly identical, but it's a tiny difference and in no way big enough to say that the concept doesn't exist. It's just a shorthand for something that otherwise might require a modifier or explanation, + using English is cool.