4 ms·

You haven't been paying attention. Yes, pepe was fine, and yes many people who post it do so with no ill intent. But you are ignoring that people who are proud

by saboot 10y ago

You haven't been paying attention. Yes, pepe was fine, and yes many people who post it do so with no ill intent. But you are ignoring that people who are proudly racist are openly admitting to using pepe specifically to broaden and popularize explicitly racist ideas. That deserves to have light shown on it.

adamrezich 10y ago
Does it? What does it prove? Why does shining the spotlight on self-proclaimed Internet racists actually accomplish? Especially seeing as how much of the racism seems to mostly be in service of attention-seeking? What do you get out of proving that self-proclaimed racists [do x], as a small subset of people who [do x]?
- saboot 10y ago
  Not self proclaimed internet racists, we're talking about white nationalists and race segregationists like Richard Spencer and Jared Taylor discussing Pepe as a way to "speak truth to power".
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- snowwrestler 10y ago
  It helps motivate others to help keep their standard-bearer out of the most powerful office in the world.
imron 10y ago
> But you are ignoring that people who are proudly racist are openly admitting to using pepe specifically to broaden and popularize explicitly racist ideas You mean like the prominent white supremacists quoted in the article linked to by that expose? Who later turned out to be a couple of trolls making up stuff for shits and giggles to see what sort of ridiculous things they could make journalists write? (http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/14/heres-how-two-twitter-pranksters-convinced-the-world-that-pepe-the-frog-meme-is-just-a-front-for-white-nationalism/ http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/14/heres-how-two-twitter-pran...) Giving credibility to that just makes you look foolish. > using pepe specifically to broaden and popularize explicitly racist ideas I await Hillary Clinton's expose on Mickey Mouse https://www.google.com/search?q=mickey+mouse+nazi&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=mickey+mouse+nazi&tbm=isch
- saboot 10y ago
  No, I mean people like Richard Spencer, an unashamed white supremacist who believes in segregating by race. "We live in a society of a great deal of degeneracy, we live in a society in which the fundamental norms are liberal, and we are attempting to fight our way out of that. And sometimes that's going to involve using the means that are at hand. That's going to involve being a part of this fragmented group. That's going to involve dank memes. It's going to involve pepe. It's going to involve unleashing a little chaos". - Richard Spencer at the recent conference of the Alt Right Willfully ignoring that these people are attempting to get organized, and co-opting whatever gets them traction, is unhelpful at best and dangerous.
  - imron 10y ago
    > Willfully ignoring that these people are attempting to get organized, and co-opting whatever gets them traction, is unhelpful at best and dangerous. You've got it backwards. Allowing their words to control your actions gives them power over you. Are 'dank memes' now racist also just like Pepe? Imagine instead of 'It's going to involve pepe' he said 'It's going to involve breathing air and drinking water', or some other common and popular thing. Do you give such idiots the power to control your actions over some common and totally innocuous thing that you might otherwise enjoy or find amusing? That is called being played for a fool and that is what gets them traction.
    - saboot 10y ago
      What are you talking about? I'm pointing out that they are intentionally using pepe memes to make their ideas seem innocuous. And they get retweeted widely. It's a fact, choose to do what you want with it. If you want to blow that up into a giant hyperbole that's on you. Making people aware of what is going on doesn't limit anyone's speech or actions.
      - imron 10y ago
        > I'm pointing out that they are intentionally using pepe memes to make their ideas seem innocuous. And they get retweeted widely. It's a fact, choose to do what you want with it. The same would be true if they posted Mickey Mouse memes or anything else. To claim Pepe memes by default have any sort of racist undertones (as the Clinton campaign is doing) is false. > Making people aware of what is going on doesn't limit anyone's speech or actions Except with that article on Hillary's site, it's not being done to 'make people aware' it's done to brand Pepe as being racist so that when you see regular Trump supporters posting completely innocent Pepe memes (which they do with regularity) it creates the illusion that a large number of Trump supporters are racist (some are I'm sure but the same goes for any group that contains tens of millions of people). Taking a white-supremacist at his word that Pepe is part of their movement also give them power and notoriety that they wouldn't otherwise have. By 'making people aware' you are giving voice to people who otherwise wouldn't be heard. Don't believe me? Look at Google Trends for something like 'David Duke' https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=david%20duke https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=david%20duke Who do you think is responsible for creating that upsurge in interest? Who are the people quoting Duke in articles and writing pages and pages of content about him? Hint it isn't Trump, it's the people trying to tar Trump with a racist brush.

by saboot 10y ago

adamrezich 10y ago

Does it? What does it prove? Why does shining the spotlight on self-proclaimed Internet racists actually accomplish? Especially seeing as how much of the racism seems to mostly be in service of attention-seeking? What do you get out of proving that self-proclaimed racists [do x], as a small subset of people who [do x]?

saboot 10y ago
Not self proclaimed internet racists, we're talking about white nationalists and race segregationists like Richard Spencer and Jared Taylor discussing Pepe as a way to "speak truth to power".
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
snowwrestler 10y ago
It helps motivate others to help keep their standard-bearer out of the most powerful office in the world.

imron 10y ago

> But you are ignoring that people who are proudly racist are openly admitting to using pepe specifically to broaden and popularize explicitly racist ideas You mean like the prominent white supremacists quoted in the article linked to by that expose? Who later turned out to be a couple of trolls making up stuff for shits and giggles to see what sort of ridiculous things they could make journalists write? (http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/14/heres-how-two-twitter-pranksters-convinced-the-world-that-pepe-the-frog-meme-is-just-a-front-for-white-nationalism/ http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/14/heres-how-two-twitter-pran...) Giving credibility to that just makes you look foolish. > using pepe specifically to broaden and popularize explicitly racist ideas I await Hillary Clinton's expose on Mickey Mouse https://www.google.com/search?q=mickey+mouse+nazi&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=mickey+mouse+nazi&tbm=isch

saboot 10y ago
No, I mean people like Richard Spencer, an unashamed white supremacist who believes in segregating by race. "We live in a society of a great deal of degeneracy, we live in a society in which the fundamental norms are liberal, and we are attempting to fight our way out of that. And sometimes that's going to involve using the means that are at hand. That's going to involve being a part of this fragmented group. That's going to involve dank memes. It's going to involve pepe. It's going to involve unleashing a little chaos". - Richard Spencer at the recent conference of the Alt Right Willfully ignoring that these people are attempting to get organized, and co-opting whatever gets them traction, is unhelpful at best and dangerous.
- imron 10y ago
  > Willfully ignoring that these people are attempting to get organized, and co-opting whatever gets them traction, is unhelpful at best and dangerous. You've got it backwards. Allowing their words to control your actions gives them power over you. Are 'dank memes' now racist also just like Pepe? Imagine instead of 'It's going to involve pepe' he said 'It's going to involve breathing air and drinking water', or some other common and popular thing. Do you give such idiots the power to control your actions over some common and totally innocuous thing that you might otherwise enjoy or find amusing? That is called being played for a fool and that is what gets them traction.
  - saboot 10y ago
    What are you talking about? I'm pointing out that they are intentionally using pepe memes to make their ideas seem innocuous. And they get retweeted widely. It's a fact, choose to do what you want with it. If you want to blow that up into a giant hyperbole that's on you. Making people aware of what is going on doesn't limit anyone's speech or actions.
    - imron 10y ago
      > I'm pointing out that they are intentionally using pepe memes to make their ideas seem innocuous. And they get retweeted widely. It's a fact, choose to do what you want with it. The same would be true if they posted Mickey Mouse memes or anything else. To claim Pepe memes by default have any sort of racist undertones (as the Clinton campaign is doing) is false. > Making people aware of what is going on doesn't limit anyone's speech or actions Except with that article on Hillary's site, it's not being done to 'make people aware' it's done to brand Pepe as being racist so that when you see regular Trump supporters posting completely innocent Pepe memes (which they do with regularity) it creates the illusion that a large number of Trump supporters are racist (some are I'm sure but the same goes for any group that contains tens of millions of people). Taking a white-supremacist at his word that Pepe is part of their movement also give them power and notoriety that they wouldn't otherwise have. By 'making people aware' you are giving voice to people who otherwise wouldn't be heard. Don't believe me? Look at Google Trends for something like 'David Duke' https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=david%20duke https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=david%20duke Who do you think is responsible for creating that upsurge in interest? Who are the people quoting Duke in articles and writing pages and pages of content about him? Hint it isn't Trump, it's the people trying to tar Trump with a racist brush.