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I read this piece and was very saddened. Take it from someone who has been around a few more years than many others who contribute to this site. There is nothin

by grellas 10y ago

I read this piece and was very saddened. Take it from someone who has been around a few more years than many others who contribute to this site. There is nothing good - long-term - about sitting around idle for extended periods. It kills your initiative. It kills your character. It kills your options in life. It kills your soul. I saw this happen to several people who were very close to me growing up and I still grieve at what they suffered in later years as the price paid for the extreme short cuts and high life of their youth. And this survey fact as reported in this piece - that is, of one in five non-college-educated young men in their twenties being so very much out of work for sustained periods - is not cause for celebration or for launching into philosophical discussions about the value of leisure in a developed society. It is instead a real tragedy, and I don’t care how many survey participants check a box attesting that, for the moment, they can say they have had lots of fun doing pretty much nothing beyond partying and playing games over the past 12 months or more. I know that today it can often happen that there are very limited options in the workplace and this so-called leisure is really an enforced leisure not of people’s own choosing. But that does not mean we should rationalize this to say that, after all, they do seem to be satisfied in their leisure. That is nothing more than a superficial covering-up of a bad situation. It is decidedly unhealthy for the individuals involved and for society as a whole to have large numbers of young men involuntarily idled for sustained periods in this way (wasn’t that what we used to call the Great Depression). Work is not an evil. It is a big part of how we grow and develop as people. It is a big part of how we negotiate life. Let us hope there comes a day ahead when enforced “leisure” is no longer a norm and the leisure people enjoy is of their own choosing.

droopyEyelids 10y ago
You're mixing up leisure and idleness. You're right about idleness, it's like a person going rotten from lack of structure. Feeling bad, seeking cheap pleasures, going crazy. But the alternative is leisure. Being able to spend hours playing music, writing or drawing, having conversations with friends, or watching the clouds. Building something for fun, or gardening. Making videos or youtubes, anything! What causes someone to be idle while another person enjoys leisure? It's hard to say, probably a combination of their peers, their upbringing, their moral character. But not working is definitely NOT a universal bad.
Broken_Hippo 10y ago
My experience has been that a great amount of work is simply idle. Forced idleness. Survive this for 40 hours a week. Factory work: Do these things over and over. Retail cashier? Do this over and over while some of these people treat you badly, including management. Fast food is worse. I worked in a call center once - inbound collections for a phone company and heard horror stories about how soul-sucking telemarketing was. There isn't much personal growth in many of these: I'd say that by the time one works 40 hours in some of these jobs and takes care of one's needs (and family), there just isn't any room left. And it isn't like there is much flexibility - you are expected to put the job first. This is precisely why I didn't want to work in a factory when I was young. I lived in a town surrounded by the shells of people that used to have life in them, but after 20-40 years of boredom, repetition, and merely being a piece of the machine had severe effects. Work may not be an evil in itself, but the culture of it really can be and most work out there simply isn't a rewarding experience outside of getting money. I'm not convinced that this sort of idleness is preferable outside of having money. If the culture should change, it might be different. Encourage outside life, make policies so that folks can have family time and take care of them, discourage overtime: make sure folks have wages and free time enough that they can do something after taking care of things they need. This won't fix the horribleness of some jobs, but it will trap folks a little less.

by grellas 10y ago

droopyEyelids 10y ago

You're mixing up leisure and idleness. You're right about idleness, it's like a person going rotten from lack of structure. Feeling bad, seeking cheap pleasures, going crazy. But the alternative is leisure. Being able to spend hours playing music, writing or drawing, having conversations with friends, or watching the clouds. Building something for fun, or gardening. Making videos or youtubes, anything! What causes someone to be idle while another person enjoys leisure? It's hard to say, probably a combination of their peers, their upbringing, their moral character. But not working is definitely NOT a universal bad.

Broken_Hippo 10y ago

My experience has been that a great amount of work is simply idle. Forced idleness. Survive this for 40 hours a week. Factory work: Do these things over and over. Retail cashier? Do this over and over while some of these people treat you badly, including management. Fast food is worse. I worked in a call center once - inbound collections for a phone company and heard horror stories about how soul-sucking telemarketing was. There isn't much personal growth in many of these: I'd say that by the time one works 40 hours in some of these jobs and takes care of one's needs (and family), there just isn't any room left. And it isn't like there is much flexibility - you are expected to put the job first. This is precisely why I didn't want to work in a factory when I was young. I lived in a town surrounded by the shells of people that used to have life in them, but after 20-40 years of boredom, repetition, and merely being a piece of the machine had severe effects. Work may not be an evil in itself, but the culture of it really can be and most work out there simply isn't a rewarding experience outside of getting money. I'm not convinced that this sort of idleness is preferable outside of having money. If the culture should change, it might be different. Encourage outside life, make policies so that folks can have family time and take care of them, discourage overtime: make sure folks have wages and free time enough that they can do something after taking care of things they need. This won't fix the horribleness of some jobs, but it will trap folks a little less.