5 ms·

That's a misunderstanding of what free time is. Free time isn't unproductive time, its unrestricted time. Free time, if fully exploited, can't be worse than the

by adrusi 10y ago

That's a misunderstanding of what free time is. Free time isn't unproductive time, its unrestricted time. Free time, if fully exploited, can't be worse than the alternative because you're free to do the alternative if its the best use of your time! The problem is that people don't know how to use their free time, and so it ends up spent getting high and watching TV. Maybe people would be better at exploiting the time they have if they were allowed free time earlier in life. Kids are pretty good at taking advantage of the time they have, maybe if they were allowed to keep more freedom through to adulthood they'd keep the skill. Maybe if our non-free time weren't so stressful we wouldn't feel the need to use our free time just to unwind. Or maybe its that entertainment has gotten too compelling. I'd rather not believe that people have an innate need to be forced to do whatever they do.

323454 10y ago
You're right about kids: they spend much of their free time exploring and playing like they're hard wired to do it. I think our 19th-century-style schools are the problem: we drum information and behaviours into kids until they forget how to be independent. All this time wasted sitting at a desk in a classroom means they might miss out on the chance to develop a passion for something, something that they would fill their free time with later in life. And then we're surprised that people just want to watch netflix.
- kjhughes 10y ago
  Ken Robinson expounds upon this thesis in a classic TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_cre...
- rimantas 10y ago
  Yeah, just think what a nice ornate roof we could build if we skipped foundations and spent all the time saved on the roof…
  - xenophonf 10y ago
    That misses the point, which is that rote memorization and the recitation of facts does not lay any kind of intellectual foundation, but rather attempts to turn children into diligent factory workers.
    - tamana 10y ago
      You think that memorizing facts in school is useful for factory workers?
      - thatcat 10y ago
        It's the behavioral compliance of memorizing facts that you're not particularly interested in on demand that is a useful trait for factory/office workers
  - thatcat 10y ago
    you're describing building an A frame - one of the most efficient ways to build a house
- dade_ 10y ago
  Rather they "beat" the independence out of children intentionally as the trait does make them a nuisance. It is much easier to have a room full of trained animals.
sushisource 10y ago
Hey man, don't knock getting high and watching TV. I'm sure there are plenty of successful HN readers that enjoy doing just that with some of their free time. :)
- soft_dev_person 10y ago
  I second that. Also, we don't all have perfect lives. Sometimes an escape (TV, getting high, whatever) is the best use of our time to stay somewhat sane.
- vlunkr 10y ago
  I believe being really unproductive is fine in small doses. Sometimes you need to just really relax. The problem is when that's how you spend ALL your free time. I mean, have you ever watched tv all day and really felt good about yourself at the end?
  - SolaceQuantum 10y ago
    I like marathon running documentaries. It makes me feel better at the end of them.
  - PakG1 10y ago
    It really depends on the quality of what I'm watching. :) Breaking Bad? House of Cards? Been there, done that, didn't regret it at all.
  - dade_ 10y ago
    Yes and an all nighter to follow! Watched a couple of seasons of Six Feet Under with a buddy of mine years ago, it was fantastic. No amount of time spent with friends is "really unproductive", it literally keeps us alive. I didn't see a note about it in this article, but I suspect that the no-income people that are happier with their lives are doing low cost entertainment activities with friends.
dwaltrip 10y ago
Great post. It seems that often in these discussions people don't acknowledge this fundamental underlying aspect, which I find frustrating. The implication of the statement "Humans absolutely need jobs in order to lead happy, beneficial lives" is that humans are, by their very nature, to stupid to figure out how to do it by themselves. I very strongly believe it's a cultural problem, not a human problem.
ritchiea 10y ago
This is an important distinction, I obsessively avoid the overwork culture but I'm far from someone who just idles in my free time. I freelance and optimize my schedule to make a comfortable amount of money but not the most money I can possibly make. Then I spend much of the time I'm not working for a client on creative projects. So even though I may only properly book 3-4 days a week of client work, I'm working because I'm writing or filming or editing, or a client has a need that stretched outside of our booked hours that I'm taking care of or I'm just relaxing going to a museum or watching a movie. But the important thing is that I can choose what I do with most of my time. It's free as in "I have options" not free as in "I'm doing nothing."

by adrusi 10y ago

323454 10y ago

You're right about kids: they spend much of their free time exploring and playing like they're hard wired to do it. I think our 19th-century-style schools are the problem: we drum information and behaviours into kids until they forget how to be independent. All this time wasted sitting at a desk in a classroom means they might miss out on the chance to develop a passion for something, something that they would fill their free time with later in life. And then we're surprised that people just want to watch netflix.

kjhughes 10y ago
Ken Robinson expounds upon this thesis in a classic TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_cre...
rimantas 10y ago
Yeah, just think what a nice ornate roof we could build if we skipped foundations and spent all the time saved on the roof…
- xenophonf 10y ago
  That misses the point, which is that rote memorization and the recitation of facts does not lay any kind of intellectual foundation, but rather attempts to turn children into diligent factory workers.
  - tamana 10y ago
    You think that memorizing facts in school is useful for factory workers?
    - thatcat 10y ago
      It's the behavioral compliance of memorizing facts that you're not particularly interested in on demand that is a useful trait for factory/office workers
- thatcat 10y ago
  you're describing building an A frame - one of the most efficient ways to build a house
dade_ 10y ago
Rather they "beat" the independence out of children intentionally as the trait does make them a nuisance. It is much easier to have a room full of trained animals.

sushisource 10y ago

Hey man, don't knock getting high and watching TV. I'm sure there are plenty of successful HN readers that enjoy doing just that with some of their free time. :)

soft_dev_person 10y ago
I second that. Also, we don't all have perfect lives. Sometimes an escape (TV, getting high, whatever) is the best use of our time to stay somewhat sane.
vlunkr 10y ago
I believe being really unproductive is fine in small doses. Sometimes you need to just really relax. The problem is when that's how you spend ALL your free time. I mean, have you ever watched tv all day and really felt good about yourself at the end?
- SolaceQuantum 10y ago
  I like marathon running documentaries. It makes me feel better at the end of them.
- PakG1 10y ago
  It really depends on the quality of what I'm watching. :) Breaking Bad? House of Cards? Been there, done that, didn't regret it at all.
- dade_ 10y ago
  Yes and an all nighter to follow! Watched a couple of seasons of Six Feet Under with a buddy of mine years ago, it was fantastic. No amount of time spent with friends is "really unproductive", it literally keeps us alive. I didn't see a note about it in this article, but I suspect that the no-income people that are happier with their lives are doing low cost entertainment activities with friends.

dwaltrip 10y ago

Great post. It seems that often in these discussions people don't acknowledge this fundamental underlying aspect, which I find frustrating. The implication of the statement "Humans absolutely need jobs in order to lead happy, beneficial lives" is that humans are, by their very nature, to stupid to figure out how to do it by themselves. I very strongly believe it's a cultural problem, not a human problem.

ritchiea 10y ago

This is an important distinction, I obsessively avoid the overwork culture but I'm far from someone who just idles in my free time. I freelance and optimize my schedule to make a comfortable amount of money but not the most money I can possibly make. Then I spend much of the time I'm not working for a client on creative projects. So even though I may only properly book 3-4 days a week of client work, I'm working because I'm writing or filming or editing, or a client has a need that stretched outside of our booked hours that I'm taking care of or I'm just relaxing going to a museum or watching a movie. But the important thing is that I can choose what I do with most of my time. It's free as in "I have options" not free as in "I'm doing nothing."