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So you're saying Roma people are born evil? Like if you grabbed a Roma kid, well fed and educated, taught the right from wrong, and you would still get a petty

by mavdi 10y ago

So you're saying Roma people are born evil? Like if you grabbed a Roma kid, well fed and educated, taught the right from wrong, and you would still get a petty thief? Like the society and policies have no effect on them? Is this hackernews or did I just accidentally open up the comment section of daily mail?

rospaya 10y ago
Where did OP imply that? He said it's a cultural thing and that's something you're not born with. From my own experience and dealing with NGO's that are trying to turn the tide, I can witness the same.
viraptor 10y ago
If you grabbed a Roma kid who is well fed and educated, it's very unlikely that they come from traditional Roma culture. Behaviour described in the original post belongs to that culture. It's a description of the system, not of separate people. I wouldn't call it blaming the people directly.
Yetanfou 10y ago
No, that is not what he said. What he said is that Roma (or 'Gypsy' as that term also covers other groups like the Sinti, Kale, Romanichal, Manush and others, even though that word is often used in a pejorative sense) culture (or 'nurture' in the classical nature/nurture dichotomy) leads to many of the problems experienced by these people. This is hacker news, a place where I hope more value is placed in facts than in feelings. If the facts - which can easily be found out, there are many published studies and books on the subject - don't fit your vision of society that is a problem for you to solve - or ignore. Facts and the implications thereof can be discussed but it does not make sense to deny them, nor to try to shift the attention away from them.
Pica_soO 10y ago
Some cultures have built in defenses - like conspiracy theories, unfollowable rules for outsiders and micro-agressions to uphold. But yes, you could reeducate that kid- but are you actually saying that a destructive culture should be dissolved by reeducating? Mao would be so proud off you. Speared on his own mental censor-scissor! In all seriousness, the most interesting thing that was dissolving these anti-modern Regressor-cultures are smartphones and the old, non censored internet. If everyone can look over the fence, even the children, suddenly the conspiracy stories are difficult to entrench.
- viraptor 10y ago
  > are you actually saying that a destructive culture should be dissolved by reeducating? Mao would be so proud off you. Isn't this the main idea behind modern jails? (Idea, not implementation)
darawk 10y ago
I didn't actually say anything, i'm simply pointing out that your reaction is knee-jerk and likely baseless. Neither of us know exactly why they are the way they are. It may be their fault, it may be society's fault, it may be some combination of the two. To simply conclude that it isn't their fault because your worldview is such that minority groups are never at fault is illogical and harmful.

by mavdi 10y ago

rospaya 10y ago

Where did OP imply that? He said it's a cultural thing and that's something you're not born with. From my own experience and dealing with NGO's that are trying to turn the tide, I can witness the same.

viraptor 10y ago

If you grabbed a Roma kid who is well fed and educated, it's very unlikely that they come from traditional Roma culture. Behaviour described in the original post belongs to that culture. It's a description of the system, not of separate people. I wouldn't call it blaming the people directly.

Yetanfou 10y ago

No, that is not what he said. What he said is that Roma (or 'Gypsy' as that term also covers other groups like the Sinti, Kale, Romanichal, Manush and others, even though that word is often used in a pejorative sense) culture (or 'nurture' in the classical nature/nurture dichotomy) leads to many of the problems experienced by these people. This is hacker news, a place where I hope more value is placed in facts than in feelings. If the facts - which can easily be found out, there are many published studies and books on the subject - don't fit your vision of society that is a problem for you to solve - or ignore. Facts and the implications thereof can be discussed but it does not make sense to deny them, nor to try to shift the attention away from them.

Pica_soO 10y ago

Some cultures have built in defenses - like conspiracy theories, unfollowable rules for outsiders and micro-agressions to uphold. But yes, you could reeducate that kid- but are you actually saying that a destructive culture should be dissolved by reeducating? Mao would be so proud off you. Speared on his own mental censor-scissor! In all seriousness, the most interesting thing that was dissolving these anti-modern Regressor-cultures are smartphones and the old, non censored internet. If everyone can look over the fence, even the children, suddenly the conspiracy stories are difficult to entrench.

viraptor 10y ago
> are you actually saying that a destructive culture should be dissolved by reeducating? Mao would be so proud off you. Isn't this the main idea behind modern jails? (Idea, not implementation)

darawk 10y ago

I didn't actually say anything, i'm simply pointing out that your reaction is knee-jerk and likely baseless. Neither of us know exactly why they are the way they are. It may be their fault, it may be society's fault, it may be some combination of the two. To simply conclude that it isn't their fault because your worldview is such that minority groups are never at fault is illogical and harmful.