3 ms·

Come again? If I am to say, "Elbonians are statistically 2000% more likely to be five foot three", I am making a racist comment?

khedoros 10y ago
I think it's more like if I said "90% of Narnians are bankers and bankers statistically give less to charity; here's the data supporting each statement" or "Kilrathi are statistically 47% more likely than Dothraki to end up in jail", they may be factually-supported statements, but they can be reasonably interpreted as having deeper meanings than just the numbers. The facts themselves aren't racist, but the things I'm expecting the reader to infer from them are.
klodolph 10y ago
Think of a Venn diagram, with one circle being "correct statements of fact" and another circle being "racist comments". The two circles intersect, that is all, and my claim is that "I am making a statement of fact" is not sufficient to claim "I am doing nothing morally wrong".
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  The truth is supposed to be a perfect defense against charges of slander or libel.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - klodolph 10y ago
    Legally correct, but irrelevant. Defamation is not the only thing which is wrong, and there is also a wide gulf between "legally wrong" and "morally wrong". I'll defend your right to make racist comments with one hand while I call you out for making them with the other.
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      So intellectual honesty is wrong because of the 'racist' brush? You can paint anything you want with that. This is the anti-intellectual America that I fear. Decisions made based on PC doubletalk. Folks discredited and ignored because they don't talk the official line.
      - klodolph 10y ago
        I disagree with the idea that you can paint anything as racist. Ideas can be expressed in many ways. Yes, I agree that it's a problem when people get discredited and ignored because they don't talk the party line. However, when I came into the thread it didn't look like a "party line" issue, it looked like a thread full of people sharing stories about how awful Roma are. That has nothing to do with intellectual honesty, it's just wallowing in hatred. The thread appears to have changed since then. The early comments were garbage.
        JoeAltmaier 10y ago
        Fair. I stand corrected.

khedoros 10y ago

I think it's more like if I said "90% of Narnians are bankers and bankers statistically give less to charity; here's the data supporting each statement" or "Kilrathi are statistically 47% more likely than Dothraki to end up in jail", they may be factually-supported statements, but they can be reasonably interpreted as having deeper meanings than just the numbers. The facts themselves aren't racist, but the things I'm expecting the reader to infer from them are.

klodolph 10y ago

Think of a Venn diagram, with one circle being "correct statements of fact" and another circle being "racist comments". The two circles intersect, that is all, and my claim is that "I am making a statement of fact" is not sufficient to claim "I am doing nothing morally wrong".

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
The truth is supposed to be a perfect defense against charges of slander or libel.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- klodolph 10y ago
  Legally correct, but irrelevant. Defamation is not the only thing which is wrong, and there is also a wide gulf between "legally wrong" and "morally wrong". I'll defend your right to make racist comments with one hand while I call you out for making them with the other.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    So intellectual honesty is wrong because of the 'racist' brush? You can paint anything you want with that. This is the anti-intellectual America that I fear. Decisions made based on PC doubletalk. Folks discredited and ignored because they don't talk the official line.
    - klodolph 10y ago
      I disagree with the idea that you can paint anything as racist. Ideas can be expressed in many ways. Yes, I agree that it's a problem when people get discredited and ignored because they don't talk the party line. However, when I came into the thread it didn't look like a "party line" issue, it looked like a thread full of people sharing stories about how awful Roma are. That has nothing to do with intellectual honesty, it's just wallowing in hatred. The thread appears to have changed since then. The early comments were garbage.
      - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
        Fair. I stand corrected.