3 ms·

> “The stereotypes of them panhandling and engaging in petty thievery just stir up these prejudices.” > In Sweden, politicians are debating whether to ban begg

by tetrep 10y ago

> “The stereotypes of them panhandling and engaging in petty thievery just stir up these prejudices.” > In Sweden, politicians are debating whether to ban begging, a tactic critics say targets Roma. So, the stereotypes are true? From what I can tell, the Roma have a distinct way of life that they're seeking out, making them a bit different than socioeconomically transient groups that are struggling to integrate and succeed (i.e. various influxes of immigrants at different stages of US history).

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
kpil 10y ago
I would say that the stereotypes are mostly true, in the majority or minority (whatever it is) that is visible. I am sure there are a reasonably sized portion of Roma that do not live up to the stereotype and are treated unjustifiably bad, but that is not what is noticed. I am also sure that the Roma have a really hard time living in Romania and Bulgaria. However. During the recent 5-7 years or so, several thousands (25.000?) of Roma have semi-permanently migrated to Sweden, and there is now a beggar outside literally every super market, liqueur store or hardware store in Sweden. Wherever you go. Even in the smallest and most remote village. Other than begging, many of them are making a living by stealing - mostly from elders, picking pockets or ripping necklaces, shoplifting, and to some extent prostitution - all of which has become a problem in some areas. An unusually publicized event was that a Romanian Roma that got arrested for kicking a pregnant mother of two in her stomach when she challenged him when he was trying to steal a wallet from an elderly person. As a side note, it was not reported that he was Roma because ethnicity is characteristically not considered "important" in Swedish media. If mentioned, Roma are euphemistically called "EU-migrants" by media, presumably because it is considered racist to single out an ethnic minority. As there are about 1,000,000 actual legal (working) EU-migrants in Sweden, it is actually rather misleading and confusing. Sweden have a bit of a embarrassing history with our own Roma - we deported most of them to Finland in the 17th century, supposedly because they were a nuisance - and had a really hard line "integration" policy with the remaining few until 1975 or so, where many were sterilized, and many children were taken from their parents. Because of that, and also because Swedes are generally very kind-hearted - the authorities have been very lenient with the newly arrived Romanian Roma, and although they are not really allowed to stay here for more than 3 months, it is not enforced at all. Slums have been allowed to be built, and families with children are allowed to live in circumstances that would immediately lead to an intervention from the social agencies if they were not Roma. Only recently the tension has been rising, partly also because the 500.000 or so refugees that have come here during the same period. The social welfare providers have been starting to refuse to offer schools (as they have done) and medical help, on the ground that they are not actually residents. Talks and agreements have been made with Romania and Bulgaria, and some have been offered repatriation and economic help in Romania. As a side note, the "indigenous" - mostly Finnish speaking Roma that moved "back" to Sweden from Finland are not faring that well either. A police register of more or less every single Swedish Roma living in southern Sweden was leaked to a newspaper a while ago which lead to a lot of media attention and accusations of racism. The regional police was criticized by politicians and the politruk top brass, and was criticized in an internal revision, but it was also closed without further actions, as it also turned out that every single person on the list was either a recently convicted or suspected person, or closely related to or living with a recently convicted or suspected person. So yes. Stereotypes seems to be true. There are strong cultural factors that seems to hard to change, and there are probably enforcing mechanisms but those that actually really suffers are the Roma themselves. If there is any violence, it's almost exclusively within their own group, and the economic damage is actually not that large.
- guard-of-terra 10y ago
  > families with children are allowed to live in circumstances that would immediately lead to an intervention from the social agencies if they were not Roma That's totally baffles me every time. Let real degenerates do whatever they please, but terrorize middle class families? That's what "social agencies" seem to do everywhere.

by tetrep 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

kpil 10y ago

I would say that the stereotypes are mostly true, in the majority or minority (whatever it is) that is visible. I am sure there are a reasonably sized portion of Roma that do not live up to the stereotype and are treated unjustifiably bad, but that is not what is noticed. I am also sure that the Roma have a really hard time living in Romania and Bulgaria. However. During the recent 5-7 years or so, several thousands (25.000?) of Roma have semi-permanently migrated to Sweden, and there is now a beggar outside literally every super market, liqueur store or hardware store in Sweden. Wherever you go. Even in the smallest and most remote village. Other than begging, many of them are making a living by stealing - mostly from elders, picking pockets or ripping necklaces, shoplifting, and to some extent prostitution - all of which has become a problem in some areas. An unusually publicized event was that a Romanian Roma that got arrested for kicking a pregnant mother of two in her stomach when she challenged him when he was trying to steal a wallet from an elderly person. As a side note, it was not reported that he was Roma because ethnicity is characteristically not considered "important" in Swedish media. If mentioned, Roma are euphemistically called "EU-migrants" by media, presumably because it is considered racist to single out an ethnic minority. As there are about 1,000,000 actual legal (working) EU-migrants in Sweden, it is actually rather misleading and confusing. Sweden have a bit of a embarrassing history with our own Roma - we deported most of them to Finland in the 17th century, supposedly because they were a nuisance - and had a really hard line "integration" policy with the remaining few until 1975 or so, where many were sterilized, and many children were taken from their parents. Because of that, and also because Swedes are generally very kind-hearted - the authorities have been very lenient with the newly arrived Romanian Roma, and although they are not really allowed to stay here for more than 3 months, it is not enforced at all. Slums have been allowed to be built, and families with children are allowed to live in circumstances that would immediately lead to an intervention from the social agencies if they were not Roma. Only recently the tension has been rising, partly also because the 500.000 or so refugees that have come here during the same period. The social welfare providers have been starting to refuse to offer schools (as they have done) and medical help, on the ground that they are not actually residents. Talks and agreements have been made with Romania and Bulgaria, and some have been offered repatriation and economic help in Romania. As a side note, the "indigenous" - mostly Finnish speaking Roma that moved "back" to Sweden from Finland are not faring that well either. A police register of more or less every single Swedish Roma living in southern Sweden was leaked to a newspaper a while ago which lead to a lot of media attention and accusations of racism. The regional police was criticized by politicians and the politruk top brass, and was criticized in an internal revision, but it was also closed without further actions, as it also turned out that every single person on the list was either a recently convicted or suspected person, or closely related to or living with a recently convicted or suspected person. So yes. Stereotypes seems to be true. There are strong cultural factors that seems to hard to change, and there are probably enforcing mechanisms but those that actually really suffers are the Roma themselves. If there is any violence, it's almost exclusively within their own group, and the economic damage is actually not that large.

guard-of-terra 10y ago
> families with children are allowed to live in circumstances that would immediately lead to an intervention from the social agencies if they were not Roma That's totally baffles me every time. Let real degenerates do whatever they please, but terrorize middle class families? That's what "social agencies" seem to do everywhere.