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I, too, would probably have a bad time if I was trying to learn a framework as it was being built.

lghh 10y ago
That's sort of the problem that the article was addressing. By the time things have been built, they are old news to the JS community - or at least those that you see on HN, Medium, blogs, etc. If you mention learning Angular 1 anywhere you get shouted at that it's old and should not be used and to instead look at Angular 2 and React. By the time those are established, it'll be on to something else. And that isn't just the case for frameworks, it extends to tooling as well. JS is a mess - one that I am involved in first hand - and it's hard to find stable footing.
- adrianpike 10y ago
  Yep, I've been burned by that many times. Eventually you have to trust in authors' use of semver or other versioning systems, and that _too_ has bitten me poorly. I think a big portion of pain is around the sheer depth of the dependency trees we wind up in npm/js land these days - a trivial little service can wind up with hundreds of disparately maintained dependencies, and you just have to shrinkwrap, hope, and cross your fingers things work out.
  - fixermark 10y ago
    This wouldn't be a problem if people recognized that every version they release into the wild ends up used by someone, and backwards-breaking changes should be weighted appropriately. I don't know that we're at that point in the ecosystem yet. Is there a good JavaScript framework that is operated by a team committed to keeping its API stable?
- vertex-four 10y ago
  On the other hand, frameworks like Ember are still chugging along quite happily, and swallowing up any actually good ideas the rest of the community has. For example, isomorphic apps spawned "fastboot", where with one plugin you can generate an isomorphic app from your existing Ember project (with some tweaking), talking to your existing API server.
  - flukus 10y ago
    Knockout is stall my goto, ember seems pretty similar to this. I still don't see what angular react bring to the table that isn't mush simpler with these tools.

lghh 10y ago

That's sort of the problem that the article was addressing. By the time things have been built, they are old news to the JS community - or at least those that you see on HN, Medium, blogs, etc. If you mention learning Angular 1 anywhere you get shouted at that it's old and should not be used and to instead look at Angular 2 and React. By the time those are established, it'll be on to something else. And that isn't just the case for frameworks, it extends to tooling as well. JS is a mess - one that I am involved in first hand - and it's hard to find stable footing.

adrianpike 10y ago
Yep, I've been burned by that many times. Eventually you have to trust in authors' use of semver or other versioning systems, and that _too_ has bitten me poorly. I think a big portion of pain is around the sheer depth of the dependency trees we wind up in npm/js land these days - a trivial little service can wind up with hundreds of disparately maintained dependencies, and you just have to shrinkwrap, hope, and cross your fingers things work out.
- fixermark 10y ago
  This wouldn't be a problem if people recognized that every version they release into the wild ends up used by someone, and backwards-breaking changes should be weighted appropriately. I don't know that we're at that point in the ecosystem yet. Is there a good JavaScript framework that is operated by a team committed to keeping its API stable?
vertex-four 10y ago
On the other hand, frameworks like Ember are still chugging along quite happily, and swallowing up any actually good ideas the rest of the community has. For example, isomorphic apps spawned "fastboot", where with one plugin you can generate an isomorphic app from your existing Ember project (with some tweaking), talking to your existing API server.
- flukus 10y ago
  Knockout is stall my goto, ember seems pretty similar to this. I still don't see what angular react bring to the table that isn't mush simpler with these tools.