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Where exactly do you live? A quick search indicates that Tesla is outselling Ford in Norway. If you live in Norway, then astazangasta is correct and you're look

by dpark 10y ago

Where exactly do you live? A quick search indicates that Tesla is outselling Ford in Norway. If you live in Norway, then astazangasta is correct and you're looking at a symptom of income inequality. Norway is rather wealthy even by Western standards. Tesla has done a great job of dressing up a status symbol as an environmentally friendly choice. (Or vice versa.) If you look at the poorer citizens in your country, you'll likely find no Teslas, and few electric cars in general.

varjag 10y ago
Yes it's Norway, and no, while poorer people (like me) don't drive Teslas - they drive Leafs or e-Golfs, so I maintain it has nothing to do with inequality. Nobody buy Fords because they don't have a viable EV offering on the market. Norwegians aren't really wealthier than say Danes, who have very different outcome of EV market so far due to very different policies. Nobody I know here bought a petrol car last two years; one got a plug-in hybrid. Tesla is hardly a status symbol here, it attracts customers both from the middle and luxury segments. People who in the past would consider Audi A5 or Volvo X70 would go for Tesla. The economics for electric cars are simply much better.
- dpark 10y ago
  "Poor" is relative since apparently workers in Norway earn more per capita than any other nation. A quick search indicates you guys earn something like 55% more than workers in France or Britain. So you could feel pretty poor relative to your neighbors and still bring in significantly more than the average in even affluent countries. A quick search also indicates that your gas is 25% more expensive than France or Britain, and more importantly that your electric car incentives are so absurd that your politicians are beginning to roll them back. No taxes, no tolls, no ferry charges, no parking fees, free use of bus lanes. Electric cars there are cheaper than equivalent gas powered cars, because the taxes are ~50% of the cost. Yeah, with incentives like that, I'd probably own an electric car, too. I'm not sure this counts as an electric car revolution so much as a government handout, though. If the government subsidized 50% of the price of Fords, you'd probably see their sales skyrocket but no one would really call that a revolution. Tesla is definitely a status symbol, though. The fact that Audi drivers moved to Tesla didn't dispute that because Audi is also a status symbol. Volvo to a lesser extent.
  - varjag 10y ago
    Average income here is way below Bay Area however, and it has less EV per capita than Norway. Perhaps you chose a poor metric. Parking is not free, although some municipalities subsidize rebates for EV spots in select garages. Urban dwellers (majority of EV market) nearly never take ferries. Incentives were clearly temporary from the beginning, you are hardly breaking any news to me here. The price of car is not subsidized, a Tesla here costs more dollar-to-dollar than it does in California before rebates. Sure there are (also temporary) import tax incentives, but it's about the only way a government can encourage adoption of clean tech in chicken and egg infrastructure situation. There has to be some upside for being the first guy in the town who can't fill at gas station. As soon as it gains momentum, the incentives will be rolled back. It is however already clear that EV adoption in Norway is a success. Also you have to be really really broke to see an ordinary German sedan as a status symbol, certainly not anywhere in Western Europe.
    - dpark 10y ago
      > Average income here is way below Bay Area however, and it has less EV per capita than Norway. Perhaps you chose a poor metric. I'm not sure I did pick a poor metric. Income in the Bay Area is pretty uneven. You see a lot of Teslas at the Google campus, but relatively few at Wal-Mart. Salaries at tech companies are six figure but minimum wage is just above $10/hr. > Parking is not free, although some municipalities subsidize rebates for EV spots in select garages. Urban dwellers (majority of EV market) nearly never take ferries. Incentives were clearly temporary from the beginning, you are hardly breaking any news to me here. The article I read indicated that they were, but maybe not. Obviously the tax exemption is the big factor. > The price of car is not subsidized, a Tesla here costs more dollar-to-dollar than it does in California before rebates. That's not a realistic claim if the government is waving taxes that would otherwise amount to half the total cost of the car. It's not very interesting to compare the absolute Tesla cost there and in California. What's interesting to compare is the Tesla cost there vs California relative to other options. A Tesla Model S in California costs about as much as a BMW M3. It looks like in Norway the effective cost of a Model S is closer to a basic Model 3. > Sure there are (also temporary) import tax incentives, but it's about the only way a government can encourage adoption of clean tech in chicken and egg infrastructure situation. There has to be some upside for being the first guy in the town who can't fill at gas station. As soon as it gains momentum, the incentives will be rolled back. It is however already clear that EV adoption in Norway is a success. I'm not opposed to tax incentives. My point is just that the "revolution" here is being driven by massive government subsidies. A 50% subsidy will make almost anything a success. > Also you have to be really really broke to see an ordinary German sedan as a status symbol, certainly not anywhere in Western Europe. I think this says something about your financial situation that you think the only way to see an Audi as a status symbol is if you're "really broke". I don't know about Norway, but most cars sold in Europe are not Audis or BMWs. Fiat outsells BMW and Audi. So does GM. So does Ford. And Peugot. And Renault. Volkwagon beats Audi and BMW combined. BMW and Audi are not "ordinary German sedans". They are luxury cars purchased by a minority of the population. They are absolutely status symbols. http://www.acea.be/statistics/tag/category/by-manufacturer-registrations http://www.acea.be/statistics/tag/category/by-manufacturer-r...

by dpark 10y ago

varjag 10y ago

Yes it's Norway, and no, while poorer people (like me) don't drive Teslas - they drive Leafs or e-Golfs, so I maintain it has nothing to do with inequality. Nobody buy Fords because they don't have a viable EV offering on the market. Norwegians aren't really wealthier than say Danes, who have very different outcome of EV market so far due to very different policies. Nobody I know here bought a petrol car last two years; one got a plug-in hybrid. Tesla is hardly a status symbol here, it attracts customers both from the middle and luxury segments. People who in the past would consider Audi A5 or Volvo X70 would go for Tesla. The economics for electric cars are simply much better.

dpark 10y ago
"Poor" is relative since apparently workers in Norway earn more per capita than any other nation. A quick search indicates you guys earn something like 55% more than workers in France or Britain. So you could feel pretty poor relative to your neighbors and still bring in significantly more than the average in even affluent countries. A quick search also indicates that your gas is 25% more expensive than France or Britain, and more importantly that your electric car incentives are so absurd that your politicians are beginning to roll them back. No taxes, no tolls, no ferry charges, no parking fees, free use of bus lanes. Electric cars there are cheaper than equivalent gas powered cars, because the taxes are ~50% of the cost. Yeah, with incentives like that, I'd probably own an electric car, too. I'm not sure this counts as an electric car revolution so much as a government handout, though. If the government subsidized 50% of the price of Fords, you'd probably see their sales skyrocket but no one would really call that a revolution. Tesla is definitely a status symbol, though. The fact that Audi drivers moved to Tesla didn't dispute that because Audi is also a status symbol. Volvo to a lesser extent.
- varjag 10y ago
  Average income here is way below Bay Area however, and it has less EV per capita than Norway. Perhaps you chose a poor metric. Parking is not free, although some municipalities subsidize rebates for EV spots in select garages. Urban dwellers (majority of EV market) nearly never take ferries. Incentives were clearly temporary from the beginning, you are hardly breaking any news to me here. The price of car is not subsidized, a Tesla here costs more dollar-to-dollar than it does in California before rebates. Sure there are (also temporary) import tax incentives, but it's about the only way a government can encourage adoption of clean tech in chicken and egg infrastructure situation. There has to be some upside for being the first guy in the town who can't fill at gas station. As soon as it gains momentum, the incentives will be rolled back. It is however already clear that EV adoption in Norway is a success. Also you have to be really really broke to see an ordinary German sedan as a status symbol, certainly not anywhere in Western Europe.
  - dpark 10y ago
    > Average income here is way below Bay Area however, and it has less EV per capita than Norway. Perhaps you chose a poor metric. I'm not sure I did pick a poor metric. Income in the Bay Area is pretty uneven. You see a lot of Teslas at the Google campus, but relatively few at Wal-Mart. Salaries at tech companies are six figure but minimum wage is just above $10/hr. > Parking is not free, although some municipalities subsidize rebates for EV spots in select garages. Urban dwellers (majority of EV market) nearly never take ferries. Incentives were clearly temporary from the beginning, you are hardly breaking any news to me here. The article I read indicated that they were, but maybe not. Obviously the tax exemption is the big factor. > The price of car is not subsidized, a Tesla here costs more dollar-to-dollar than it does in California before rebates. That's not a realistic claim if the government is waving taxes that would otherwise amount to half the total cost of the car. It's not very interesting to compare the absolute Tesla cost there and in California. What's interesting to compare is the Tesla cost there vs California relative to other options. A Tesla Model S in California costs about as much as a BMW M3. It looks like in Norway the effective cost of a Model S is closer to a basic Model 3. > Sure there are (also temporary) import tax incentives, but it's about the only way a government can encourage adoption of clean tech in chicken and egg infrastructure situation. There has to be some upside for being the first guy in the town who can't fill at gas station. As soon as it gains momentum, the incentives will be rolled back. It is however already clear that EV adoption in Norway is a success. I'm not opposed to tax incentives. My point is just that the "revolution" here is being driven by massive government subsidies. A 50% subsidy will make almost anything a success. > Also you have to be really really broke to see an ordinary German sedan as a status symbol, certainly not anywhere in Western Europe. I think this says something about your financial situation that you think the only way to see an Audi as a status symbol is if you're "really broke". I don't know about Norway, but most cars sold in Europe are not Audis or BMWs. Fiat outsells BMW and Audi. So does GM. So does Ford. And Peugot. And Renault. Volkwagon beats Audi and BMW combined. BMW and Audi are not "ordinary German sedans". They are luxury cars purchased by a minority of the population. They are absolutely status symbols. http://www.acea.be/statistics/tag/category/by-manufacturer-registrations http://www.acea.be/statistics/tag/category/by-manufacturer-r...