4 ms·

Who are you to say that a year spent working on a startup is a lost year? Why is it foolish spend 3 to 5 years on something that might just change the world, es

by gizmo 17y ago

Who are you to say that a year spent working on a startup is a lost year? Why is it foolish spend 3 to 5 years on something that might just change the world, especially if you enjoy the ride? I bet that 20 teams shooting for a 7 figure exit will be on average much more successful than 20 teams building a cautious/lifestyle business. You could even argue that shooting for a 7 figure exit is the selfless thing to do, because you're less likely to make a good living that way compared to a lifestyle business, but you are more likely to make a significant contribution to the economy (+ job creation).

tptacek 17y ago
First, stop kidding yourself. The year everyone loses trying to get funded doesn't teach them anything other than "getting funded is harder than all the blog posts make it sound". The 3-5 years the "lucky" few lose on ultimately unsuccessful shoot-the-moon startups don't teach them anything other than "it is possible to waste a spectacular amount of money without much revenue in return for it, and that's a great way to spend 60% of your work day in meetings". Let me save 5 years of your life for you: * Getting funded is harder than everything on Hacker News makes it sound. * You can waste truly spectacular amounts of money without earning anything from customers in return from it, and when you do that, you wind up in meetings with salespeople, meetings with marketing people, meetings with PR people, meetings with engineers about the marketing people, meetings with the CEO, and, oops! Now it's time to go home. Second: No. Shooting for a 7 figure exit is not a "selfless" thing to do. We didn't do that and we've created more jobs than a lot of funded YC companies have. The difference between companies that exit and companies that don't isn't headcount.
- borism 17y ago
  indeed. this "significant contribution to the economy (+ job creation)" part is especially delusional. most of the jobs are still created by small businesses.
  - gizmo 17y ago
    Not the interesting ones. There's a reason people so many want to work for Microsoft / Google / Apple / Sun, etc. Small companies have the hardest time attracting really talented and ambitious people. And they usually can't afford them either. A startup often works on interesting problems from day one, and if (!) it becomes profitable the jobs become permanent. Since larger companies mostly grow by buying startups, a large part of all "interesting" jobs are created by startups/spinoffs.
    - wlievens 17y ago
      > Since larger companies mostly grow by buying startups Is that even true?
      - borism 17y ago
        it depends, but generally no
        wlievens 17y ago
        A vague answer :-) To me, the remark sounded like a fanboi of the 'acquisition-target' business model which I personally think is naive and unsustainable.
- gizmo 17y ago
  You're arguing against a straw-man version of my argument and you're making absurd claims in the process ("you don't learn anything from a startup" / "you spend 60% of your day in meetings"). When you write nonsense like this you can't possibly expect a constructive responsive.
  - tptacek 17y ago
    See, you think I'm exaggerating or being hyperbolic, and I'm not. I might be wrong. But I'm not just making things up. I am telling you that you probably don't learn more from failing in a startup than you could have in 3-5 years doing something else, and that yes, in fact, if you have the misfortune of getting funded, you can wind up in a job that you're handcuffed to that involves you spending most of your time in meetings. It worries me a little that people think this claim is so outlandish that anyone making it must be trolling. I'm really not.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 17y ago
      Don't feel bad. What really made it sink in for me was when someone referred to "the myth" that most startups fail! pg immediately corrected him, but sometimes I still wonder how pervasive the idea is that most startups will make it big.
    - gizmo 17y ago
      When you do a startup you have to learn about building a product, finding customers, managing a team efficiently, hiring the right people, building a brand for your company, determine a revenue model, basic bookkeeping, and so on. I'm just listing a couple of the many things you have to learn when doing a startup. None of these things you have to do when you're a software engineer in an established company. You can only spend a few hours a day on software, if you're lucky. The rest of the time you're building different skills. So that's why I can't take the claim "you don't learn anything" seriously. If you're in meetings all day you're either not delegating enough or you like being in meetings all day. Either way nobody is forcing you to have meetings all day every day.

by gizmo 17y ago

tptacek 17y ago

First, stop kidding yourself. The year everyone loses trying to get funded doesn't teach them anything other than "getting funded is harder than all the blog posts make it sound". The 3-5 years the "lucky" few lose on ultimately unsuccessful shoot-the-moon startups don't teach them anything other than "it is possible to waste a spectacular amount of money without much revenue in return for it, and that's a great way to spend 60% of your work day in meetings". Let me save 5 years of your life for you: * Getting funded is harder than everything on Hacker News makes it sound. * You can waste truly spectacular amounts of money without earning anything from customers in return from it, and when you do that, you wind up in meetings with salespeople, meetings with marketing people, meetings with PR people, meetings with engineers about the marketing people, meetings with the CEO, and, oops! Now it's time to go home. Second: No. Shooting for a 7 figure exit is not a "selfless" thing to do. We didn't do that and we've created more jobs than a lot of funded YC companies have. The difference between companies that exit and companies that don't isn't headcount.

borism 17y ago
indeed. this "significant contribution to the economy (+ job creation)" part is especially delusional. most of the jobs are still created by small businesses.
- gizmo 17y ago
  Not the interesting ones. There's a reason people so many want to work for Microsoft / Google / Apple / Sun, etc. Small companies have the hardest time attracting really talented and ambitious people. And they usually can't afford them either. A startup often works on interesting problems from day one, and if (!) it becomes profitable the jobs become permanent. Since larger companies mostly grow by buying startups, a large part of all "interesting" jobs are created by startups/spinoffs.
  - wlievens 17y ago
    > Since larger companies mostly grow by buying startups Is that even true?
    - borism 17y ago
      it depends, but generally no
      - wlievens 17y ago
        A vague answer :-) To me, the remark sounded like a fanboi of the 'acquisition-target' business model which I personally think is naive and unsustainable.
gizmo 17y ago
You're arguing against a straw-man version of my argument and you're making absurd claims in the process ("you don't learn anything from a startup" / "you spend 60% of your day in meetings"). When you write nonsense like this you can't possibly expect a constructive responsive.
- tptacek 17y ago
  See, you think I'm exaggerating or being hyperbolic, and I'm not. I might be wrong. But I'm not just making things up. I am telling you that you probably don't learn more from failing in a startup than you could have in 3-5 years doing something else, and that yes, in fact, if you have the misfortune of getting funded, you can wind up in a job that you're handcuffed to that involves you spending most of your time in meetings. It worries me a little that people think this claim is so outlandish that anyone making it must be trolling. I'm really not.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 17y ago
    Don't feel bad. What really made it sink in for me was when someone referred to "the myth" that most startups fail! pg immediately corrected him, but sometimes I still wonder how pervasive the idea is that most startups will make it big.
  - gizmo 17y ago
    When you do a startup you have to learn about building a product, finding customers, managing a team efficiently, hiring the right people, building a brand for your company, determine a revenue model, basic bookkeeping, and so on. I'm just listing a couple of the many things you have to learn when doing a startup. None of these things you have to do when you're a software engineer in an established company. You can only spend a few hours a day on software, if you're lucky. The rest of the time you're building different skills. So that's why I can't take the claim "you don't learn anything" seriously. If you're in meetings all day you're either not delegating enough or you like being in meetings all day. Either way nobody is forcing you to have meetings all day every day.