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http://harvardlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/vol126_the_people_in_the_constitution.pdf http://harvardlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/vol126_t... M

http://harvardlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/vol126_the_people_in_the_constitution.pdf http://harvardlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/vol126_t... My understanding has it that in practice "the people" means roughly "all citizens and residents of the US", not all people anywhere. You can disagree with the courts over what the words mean, but do so deliberately.

freehunter 10y ago
That is an excellent article! I actually learned quite a bit from that, thank you. The main take-away that I had is that the courts generally uphold "the people" to mean "citizens", but there are some strong divisions on that and the case is far from settled. At the very least I agree with Harvard's opinion that this judgement cannot hold true to all instances of the the phrase "the people" without massively undoing hundreds of years of case law. Based on that I will change my statement here to say "the Constitution restricts the government, but it's unclear in the courts whether it restricts the government's actions against non-citizens, although it probably should according to constitutional law scholars". So if you're a tourist in the US, watch what you say and do, because you may not have any right to freedom of speech or protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
- sarnowski 10y ago
  Interestingly, the german preliminary constituion (we don't have a real one) that was written by the WWII allies also is about people but unambigously means all people on earth. 'Article 1 of the Basic Law (in German legal shorthand GG, for Grundgesetz), which establishes this principle that "human dignity is inviolable" and that human rights are directly applicable law, ...' https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law_for_the_Federal_Republic_of_Germany https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law_for_the_Federal_Re...
- dllthomas 10y ago
  To be honest, I've not given the article I linked a careful read. My understanding is that it's entirely uncontroversial (as a question of "is" rather than "ought") that those who are neither US citizens nor US residents, while also not present in the US, are not afforded the protections in the Constitution given to "the people". It is also entirely uncontroversial that they do apply (in sometimes disputed form) to American citizens in the US (and probably also while abroad), and that they usually apply to long-term US legal residents present in the US. Some other points on those spectra are less certain (especially to me).
imagist 10y ago
America, where corporations are people but foreigners aren't.
- geofft 10y ago
  But foreigners with corporations are people! https://theintercept.com/2016/09/16/fec-republicans-kill-attempt-to-block-foreign-money-in-u-s-elections/ https://theintercept.com/2016/09/16/fec-republicans-kill-att...
- dllthomas 10y ago
  Cute (and upvoted for humor). The question is not whether foreigners are people, but whether they are a part of "the people", usually taken to mean "the people of the United States" - which is the context in which "the people" first appears.
- hrez 10y ago
  Are foreign corporations people? - that is the question.
  - imagist 10y ago
    Yes, they can donate to political campaigns. :)

freehunter 10y ago

That is an excellent article! I actually learned quite a bit from that, thank you. The main take-away that I had is that the courts generally uphold "the people" to mean "citizens", but there are some strong divisions on that and the case is far from settled. At the very least I agree with Harvard's opinion that this judgement cannot hold true to all instances of the the phrase "the people" without massively undoing hundreds of years of case law. Based on that I will change my statement here to say "the Constitution restricts the government, but it's unclear in the courts whether it restricts the government's actions against non-citizens, although it probably should according to constitutional law scholars". So if you're a tourist in the US, watch what you say and do, because you may not have any right to freedom of speech or protection from unreasonable search and seizure.

sarnowski 10y ago
Interestingly, the german preliminary constituion (we don't have a real one) that was written by the WWII allies also is about people but unambigously means all people on earth. 'Article 1 of the Basic Law (in German legal shorthand GG, for Grundgesetz), which establishes this principle that "human dignity is inviolable" and that human rights are directly applicable law, ...' https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law_for_the_Federal_Republic_of_Germany https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law_for_the_Federal_Re...
dllthomas 10y ago
To be honest, I've not given the article I linked a careful read. My understanding is that it's entirely uncontroversial (as a question of "is" rather than "ought") that those who are neither US citizens nor US residents, while also not present in the US, are not afforded the protections in the Constitution given to "the people". It is also entirely uncontroversial that they do apply (in sometimes disputed form) to American citizens in the US (and probably also while abroad), and that they usually apply to long-term US legal residents present in the US. Some other points on those spectra are less certain (especially to me).

imagist 10y ago

America, where corporations are people but foreigners aren't.

geofft 10y ago
But foreigners with corporations are people! https://theintercept.com/2016/09/16/fec-republicans-kill-attempt-to-block-foreign-money-in-u-s-elections/ https://theintercept.com/2016/09/16/fec-republicans-kill-att...
dllthomas 10y ago
Cute (and upvoted for humor). The question is not whether foreigners are people, but whether they are a part of "the people", usually taken to mean "the people of the United States" - which is the context in which "the people" first appears.
hrez 10y ago
Are foreign corporations people? - that is the question.
- imagist 10y ago
  Yes, they can donate to political campaigns. :)