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A lot of people have made comments on the tech. But there's another issue here: trust. How many people are going to be willing to trust Oracle with their data?

A lot of people have made comments on the tech. But there's another issue here: trust. How many people are going to be willing to trust Oracle with their data? They don't exactly have the best reputation, and they don't have the best track record either. And what they did to Solaris just makes it worse. Also, Larry Ellison has a history of overselling whatever Oracle's doing, so I doubt the product will be as good as he says in any case.

pfooti 10y ago
That is exactly what I was thinking. Oracle can do pretty decent stuff with tech as far as I have seen, but their actual direction and choices seems to embody the crassly-disgusting money squeeze corporation so much that I really don't want to do business with them. I mean, they put crapware in the consumer JRE installer. How many dollars did they get for that, versus how much negative feeling from that alone? This seems like a corporation who owns their terrible reputation, and says, "who cares? we're still rich."
- saiya-jin 10y ago
  there is no attempt to disguise anything - Oracle is your typical stock evil corp, full package. they are pretty damn consistent about it too. they have couple of decent products that they evolve as little as necessary to maintain position, but everything else about them is a big no-no.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    If it could get into all the industries, Oracle would literally be Mr. Robot's ECorp.
    - ghurtado 10y ago
      Or, you know, Cyberdyne Systems - the creators of SkyNet: http://www.businessinsider.com/terminator-genisys-cyberdyne-based-on-oracle-2015-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/terminator-genisys-cyberdyne-...
      - rbanffy 10y ago
        If Oracle builds Skynet, taking it down will require nothing more than a poorly coded subquery and a wrong join.
        eropple 10y ago
        Please. The subquery is optional.
        rbanffy 10y ago
        But it'll make it spectacular.
      - bitwize 10y ago
        More like Omni Consumer Products, amirite?
- aboralis 10y ago
  Not to defend them but it was Sun not Oracle who started bundling crapware with the JRE installer.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    That actually is true. Many forget that Sun wasn't far behind Oracle in the size of its hatedom for a while. We're only nice to them now because 1) speak no ill of the dead, (2 ZFS, and other technical innovations 3) because HN is full of ex-Sun employees, and 4) because we also have the odd Solaris fanboy or two, and speaking ill of Solaris or Sun is likely to get you into a holy war second only to the one you'd get for decrying the Lispm.
    - bcantrill 10y ago
      Hi quertyuiop924, I just got the page about this Sev-2 Sun Microsystems comment on HN, and I am working this ticket. If you haven't already, please see our docs on Why Sun Microsystems Failed[1]. If I don't hear back from you, I will mark this ticket as closed. Thank you for only remembering Sun Microsystems with kindness, and have a great day! [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2287033 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2287033
      - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        Not bad, Bryan. And some interesting history, too. Don't get me wrong, Sun was a great company, but like all companies, it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows. You've said as much yourself before. I wished to point out that there was a time that Sun wasn't as beloved, and to indicate some of the reasons that we don't talk about some of Sun's less savory actions so much on HN. If, as an ex-Sun employee, you find this insulting (and the trace elements of sarcasm indicate that this may be so), than I will inform you that it certainly wasn't meant to be so, although I now see why it may come off that way. Thank you for responding to my ticket, and have a great day!
        rbanffy 10y ago
bradleyjg 10y ago
Forget data, I wouldn't want to do business with them period. Outside of some stories about investment banks I've never heard of any other company so openly out to screw their customers.
halestock 10y ago
Not that I'm defending Oracle, but what did they do with Solaris to make you think they aren't trustworthy with user data? It sounds like you're conflating two criticisms and equating "generally shitty company" with "untrustworthy company". Oracle DBs are pretty ubiquitous and I don't think I've heard privacy complaints leveled at them. Hell, even Amazon uses Oracle DBs pretty extensively internally.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  Here's the thing: If that's the sort of business we're dealing with, which will sell out anything for an opportunistic buck, and you're now paying them monthly for data/compute, do you think they won't take advantage of that?
  - halestock 10y ago
    Oracle may be evil, but they aren't dumb. A lot of their revenue comes from businesses which have much stricter requirements around data privacy than individuals.
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      They won't sell off your data, but they'll screw you over as much as they can: Can you spell "vendor lock-in", or "overpriced"?
      - rbanffy 10y ago
        If all you do is deploying to Linux VMs, it'll be very hard to lock you in. If you depend on their proprietary software, you deserve what you get.
        qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        ...And I suspect that if you deploy on them, they try their damned hardest to ensure that you depend on their exclusive cloud software. And to minimize data export options as much as possible.
devonkim 10y ago
A lot of Fortune 100 companies trust Oracle substantially more than Amazon due to Oracle being a lot more of a traditional enterprise software company while more concerns early in AWS history were around whether Amazon could navigate the usual enterprise customer's needs around compliance, federation, and security. That's been quite clearly answered now though.
ryanmarsh 10y ago
You must not work in Fortune 500 IT. Dear God how they love to shovel money at Larry Ellison. Trust? Let me tell you about the CIO's who distrust any data storage that ISN'T Oracle.
- mikeryan 10y ago
  I agree with you but this isn't data storage. For those Fortune 500 companies who've made the shift to cloud services Amazon currently fills the role that Oracle does in data storage. I'm sure there's plenty of Fortune 500 CIOs who are still hesitant to embrace the cloud in general, but If there's a CIO out there who's moving some services to the cloud going with Oracle over Amazon just because its Oracle then they're out of their element.
  - ryanmarsh 10y ago
    Even my most progressive we-want-to-be-like-Silicon-Valley clients still haven't moved everything to the cloud. Legacy is hard. Many many critical apps will continue to use Oracle until they are eventually sunset in a decade. Oracle is going to have a nice long ride into said sunset.

pfooti 10y ago

That is exactly what I was thinking. Oracle can do pretty decent stuff with tech as far as I have seen, but their actual direction and choices seems to embody the crassly-disgusting money squeeze corporation so much that I really don't want to do business with them. I mean, they put crapware in the consumer JRE installer. How many dollars did they get for that, versus how much negative feeling from that alone? This seems like a corporation who owns their terrible reputation, and says, "who cares? we're still rich."

saiya-jin 10y ago
there is no attempt to disguise anything - Oracle is your typical stock evil corp, full package. they are pretty damn consistent about it too. they have couple of decent products that they evolve as little as necessary to maintain position, but everything else about them is a big no-no.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  If it could get into all the industries, Oracle would literally be Mr. Robot's ECorp.
  - ghurtado 10y ago
    Or, you know, Cyberdyne Systems - the creators of SkyNet: http://www.businessinsider.com/terminator-genisys-cyberdyne-based-on-oracle-2015-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/terminator-genisys-cyberdyne-...
    - rbanffy 10y ago
      If Oracle builds Skynet, taking it down will require nothing more than a poorly coded subquery and a wrong join.
      - eropple 10y ago
        Please. The subquery is optional.
        rbanffy 10y ago
        But it'll make it spectacular.
    - bitwize 10y ago
      More like Omni Consumer Products, amirite?
aboralis 10y ago
Not to defend them but it was Sun not Oracle who started bundling crapware with the JRE installer.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  That actually is true. Many forget that Sun wasn't far behind Oracle in the size of its hatedom for a while. We're only nice to them now because 1) speak no ill of the dead, (2 ZFS, and other technical innovations 3) because HN is full of ex-Sun employees, and 4) because we also have the odd Solaris fanboy or two, and speaking ill of Solaris or Sun is likely to get you into a holy war second only to the one you'd get for decrying the Lispm.
  - bcantrill 10y ago
    Hi quertyuiop924, I just got the page about this Sev-2 Sun Microsystems comment on HN, and I am working this ticket. If you haven't already, please see our docs on Why Sun Microsystems Failed[1]. If I don't hear back from you, I will mark this ticket as closed. Thank you for only remembering Sun Microsystems with kindness, and have a great day! [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2287033 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2287033
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      Not bad, Bryan. And some interesting history, too. Don't get me wrong, Sun was a great company, but like all companies, it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows. You've said as much yourself before. I wished to point out that there was a time that Sun wasn't as beloved, and to indicate some of the reasons that we don't talk about some of Sun's less savory actions so much on HN. If, as an ex-Sun employee, you find this insulting (and the trace elements of sarcasm indicate that this may be so), than I will inform you that it certainly wasn't meant to be so, although I now see why it may come off that way. Thank you for responding to my ticket, and have a great day!
      - rbanffy 10y ago

bradleyjg 10y ago

Forget data, I wouldn't want to do business with them period. Outside of some stories about investment banks I've never heard of any other company so openly out to screw their customers.

halestock 10y ago

Not that I'm defending Oracle, but what did they do with Solaris to make you think they aren't trustworthy with user data? It sounds like you're conflating two criticisms and equating "generally shitty company" with "untrustworthy company". Oracle DBs are pretty ubiquitous and I don't think I've heard privacy complaints leveled at them. Hell, even Amazon uses Oracle DBs pretty extensively internally.

qwertyuiop924 10y ago
Here's the thing: If that's the sort of business we're dealing with, which will sell out anything for an opportunistic buck, and you're now paying them monthly for data/compute, do you think they won't take advantage of that?
- halestock 10y ago
  Oracle may be evil, but they aren't dumb. A lot of their revenue comes from businesses which have much stricter requirements around data privacy than individuals.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    They won't sell off your data, but they'll screw you over as much as they can: Can you spell "vendor lock-in", or "overpriced"?
    - rbanffy 10y ago
      If all you do is deploying to Linux VMs, it'll be very hard to lock you in. If you depend on their proprietary software, you deserve what you get.
      - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        ...And I suspect that if you deploy on them, they try their damned hardest to ensure that you depend on their exclusive cloud software. And to minimize data export options as much as possible.

devonkim 10y ago

A lot of Fortune 100 companies trust Oracle substantially more than Amazon due to Oracle being a lot more of a traditional enterprise software company while more concerns early in AWS history were around whether Amazon could navigate the usual enterprise customer's needs around compliance, federation, and security. That's been quite clearly answered now though.

ryanmarsh 10y ago

You must not work in Fortune 500 IT. Dear God how they love to shovel money at Larry Ellison. Trust? Let me tell you about the CIO's who distrust any data storage that ISN'T Oracle.

mikeryan 10y ago
I agree with you but this isn't data storage. For those Fortune 500 companies who've made the shift to cloud services Amazon currently fills the role that Oracle does in data storage. I'm sure there's plenty of Fortune 500 CIOs who are still hesitant to embrace the cloud in general, but If there's a CIO out there who's moving some services to the cloud going with Oracle over Amazon just because its Oracle then they're out of their element.
- ryanmarsh 10y ago
  Even my most progressive we-want-to-be-like-Silicon-Valley clients still haven't moved everything to the cloud. Legacy is hard. Many many critical apps will continue to use Oracle until they are eventually sunset in a decade. Oracle is going to have a nice long ride into said sunset.