5 ms·

How to increase site conversion by writing for an 8th grade reading level . . .

21 points by aresant 17y ago

tokenadult 17y ago
This should be unremarkable to college-educated adults who notice what most people read FOR FUN. A website people visit to meet a personal need shouldn't be any harder to read than what people read for fun. Otherwise, some easier to use website will gain market share at the expense of the harder website. Even most college-educated adults don't read outside their own area of specialization at any reading level higher than about a junior high level--as can be verified by the reading level of most best-selling books. (This can also be verified by the reading level of most highly upvoted submissions to HN. Anything that is the least bit scholarly doesn't get many upvotes. Amateurish blogs that misrepresent research but have a simple reading level--present submission excepted--tend to get a lot of upvotes, because voters can get through one or two paragraphs of those submissions to form an opinion on them.) After checking a Gunning Fog online test: The Gunning Fog index is 14.46 The number of major punctuation marks, eg. [.], was 7. The number of words was 151. The number of 3+ syllable words, highlighted in blue, was 22.
- aresant 17y ago
  Good observations - I posted this overview because it includes an actual equation and outline of HOW to proof yourself and create an A/B experiemnt on the subject.
- Periodic 17y ago
  I think most people read the web very different than they read scholarly papers. When I'm coming to hacker news I'm often in the mood to browse. I'm not looking for another dense paper to read. This article could also be interpreted as advocating writing for what your user is actually doing. If they are just checking in to a social site after a long work day they probably don't want to have to think very hard about what they're reading. If you're building a tool to help someone work, then they're probably already focused on working and you could get away with more complicated language.
- ableal 17y ago
  (You did that on purpose, right?) Gunning Fog Grade = 0.4 x [ words/sentences + 100 x (hard_words/words)] Words = 157, sentences = 7, hard_words = 10 or so G.F.Grade = 0.4 x (22.43 + 6.37) = 11.52 I award bonus points for the single paragraph wall of text ;-)(doesn't seem contemplated here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunning_fog_index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunning_fog_index , but it should be ...) P.S. The Wikipedia page lists this calculator site: http://simbon.madpage.com/Fog/ http://simbon.madpage.com/Fog/ , which calculates 14.46. It is thrown off by the en-dashes (counts 151 words), and counts 22 "3+ syllable words", including 'area' (true but amusing, given it's only five letters).
  - tokenadult 17y ago
    Much of my occasional writing online illustrates the saying, "Easy writing makes vile hard reading." Thanks for posting the scores. Yes, to make writing easy to read takes effort at editing. Now for a rewrite: You can believe what the blog post says if you think about what most people read FOR FUN. People who visit websites to get something done don't want that to be hard. So a website shouldn't be any harder to read than what people read for fun. Easy to use websites gain market share. Harder websites lose market share. Most adults don't read hard books except for their jobs. Most best-selling books are written at a junior high reading level. The submissions to Hacker News that get the most upvotes are usually also at a simple reading level. An HN submission with the reading level of scholarly writing doesn't get many upvotes. Blog posts with a simple reading level get more upvotes, because voters can understand them. Moral of the story: keep your writing simple if you want to sell anything online. After submitting to a Gunning Fog website: The Gunning Fog index is 6.705 The number of major punctuation marks, eg. [.], was 12 The number of words was 142. The number of 3+ syllable words, highlighted in blue, was 7.
    - ableal 17y ago
      I apologize for the off-topic - I actually mostly agree with you. I'll also confess that I'm partly using the comments as a sort of notebook on the interesting stuff that shows up here.
- Alex3917 17y ago
  "This should be unremarkable to college-educated adults who notice what most people read FOR FUN." I think the apropos fact would be: "The average American buys one book a year... and then doesn't read it."
samratjp 17y ago
Fwiw, Google Docs has Gunning Fog and many other measurements under tools (I believe?).
olefoo 17y ago
If you want to implement this in your own tool set there's a python module known as Readability that has Gunning-Fog and other tests. http://toolserver.org/~dispenser/view/Readability http://toolserver.org/~dispenser/view/Readability

21 points by aresant 17y ago

This should be unremarkable to college-educated adults who notice what most people read FOR FUN. A website people visit to meet a personal need shouldn't be any harder to read than what people read for fun. Otherwise, some easier to use website will gain market share at the expense of the harder website. Even most college-educated adults don't read outside their own area of specialization at any reading level higher than about a junior high level--as can be verified by the reading level of most best-selling books. (This can also be verified by the reading level of most highly upvoted submissions to HN. Anything that is the least bit scholarly doesn't get many upvotes. Amateurish blogs that misrepresent research but have a simple reading level--present submission excepted--tend to get a lot of upvotes, because voters can get through one or two paragraphs of those submissions to form an opinion on them.) After checking a Gunning Fog online test: The Gunning Fog index is 14.46 The number of major punctuation marks, eg. [.], was 7. The number of words was 151. The number of 3+ syllable words, highlighted in blue, was 22.

aresant 17y ago
Good observations - I posted this overview because it includes an actual equation and outline of HOW to proof yourself and create an A/B experiemnt on the subject.
Periodic 17y ago
I think most people read the web very different than they read scholarly papers. When I'm coming to hacker news I'm often in the mood to browse. I'm not looking for another dense paper to read. This article could also be interpreted as advocating writing for what your user is actually doing. If they are just checking in to a social site after a long work day they probably don't want to have to think very hard about what they're reading. If you're building a tool to help someone work, then they're probably already focused on working and you could get away with more complicated language.
ableal 17y ago
(You did that on purpose, right?) Gunning Fog Grade = 0.4 x [ words/sentences + 100 x (hard_words/words)] Words = 157, sentences = 7, hard_words = 10 or so G.F.Grade = 0.4 x (22.43 + 6.37) = 11.52 I award bonus points for the single paragraph wall of text ;-)(doesn't seem contemplated here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunning_fog_index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunning_fog_index , but it should be ...) P.S. The Wikipedia page lists this calculator site: http://simbon.madpage.com/Fog/ http://simbon.madpage.com/Fog/ , which calculates 14.46. It is thrown off by the en-dashes (counts 151 words), and counts 22 "3+ syllable words", including 'area' (true but amusing, given it's only five letters).
- tokenadult 17y ago
  Much of my occasional writing online illustrates the saying, "Easy writing makes vile hard reading." Thanks for posting the scores. Yes, to make writing easy to read takes effort at editing. Now for a rewrite: You can believe what the blog post says if you think about what most people read FOR FUN. People who visit websites to get something done don't want that to be hard. So a website shouldn't be any harder to read than what people read for fun. Easy to use websites gain market share. Harder websites lose market share. Most adults don't read hard books except for their jobs. Most best-selling books are written at a junior high reading level. The submissions to Hacker News that get the most upvotes are usually also at a simple reading level. An HN submission with the reading level of scholarly writing doesn't get many upvotes. Blog posts with a simple reading level get more upvotes, because voters can understand them. Moral of the story: keep your writing simple if you want to sell anything online. After submitting to a Gunning Fog website: The Gunning Fog index is 6.705 The number of major punctuation marks, eg. [.], was 12 The number of words was 142. The number of 3+ syllable words, highlighted in blue, was 7.
  - ableal 17y ago
    I apologize for the off-topic - I actually mostly agree with you. I'll also confess that I'm partly using the comments as a sort of notebook on the interesting stuff that shows up here.
Alex3917 17y ago
"This should be unremarkable to college-educated adults who notice what most people read FOR FUN." I think the apropos fact would be: "The average American buys one book a year... and then doesn't read it."

samratjp 17y ago

Fwiw, Google Docs has Gunning Fog and many other measurements under tools (I believe?).

olefoo 17y ago

If you want to implement this in your own tool set there's a python module known as Readability that has Gunning-Fog and other tests. http://toolserver.org/~dispenser/view/Readability http://toolserver.org/~dispenser/view/Readability