7 ms·

Ask YC: Best undergraduate college for hopeful startup entrepeneurs

17 points by deltapoint 19y ago

I am a Junior in high school and am wondering which college would be the best for an aspiring start up entrepreneur. Also is a computer science or business degree recommended?

rms 19y ago
Stanford. Computer Science. Good luck.
- boucher 19y ago
  From what I recall, Stanford accepts roughly 1% of applicants to the Computer Science program, compared with just over 10% for the University as a whole, making it one of the most competitive programs in the nation. On a side note, my alma mater, the University of Southern California, accepts roughly 25% of students as a whole, and a slightly lower percentage of computer science students (though I can't find specific numbers). I can't speak to knowing a large volume of entrepreneurs at USC, but I do know a few. The school itself has been making an impressive dedication to increasing entrepreneurship, however, especially in the Viterbi school of engineering. Mark Stevens, of Sequoia, recently funded a center for technology commercialization designed to help students build businesses out of research projects, and there are several student groups devoted to similar pursuits. Los Angeles is also not the valley, but it turns out that it is a decent alternative, I would say at least as much so as any other major city in the U.S. I'm not saying you should go to USC necessarily, but I enjoyed myself while I was there. One thing is certain, though, it is very different from Stanford.
  - RyanGWU82 19y ago
    From what I recall, Stanford accepts roughly 1% of applicants to the Computer Science program, compared with just over 10% for the University as a whole, making it one of the most competitive programs in the nation. That may be true for Ph.D. students, but not for undergraduates. Undergraduate applications are reviewed without regards to major. You'll have an equal chance of getting in whether you express interest in CS or English. The Stanford admissions website confirms this. [1] The Ph.D. program may have acceptance rates approaching 1%, although I don't really think it's that low. Also, the master's program accepts a significantly higher percentage of applicants than the doctoral program. [1] "All applicants apply to Stanford through the Office of Undergraduate Admission, not to a particular school or department within the University, and Stanford does not give preference to any major." http://admission.stanford.edu/applying/1_8_faqs.html http://admission.stanford.edu/applying/1_8_faqs.html
    - boucher 19y ago
      You're right, in that I cannot find anyone claiming the significantly lower figure for CS admissions in particular. Even at 10%, it is among the most competitive programs in the country. Both Williams and Amherst, the top two liberal arts colleges in the US, have over 15% admissions, while Yale and Harvard come in usually between 8% and 10%. On a side note, I have some doubt that the admissions process is truly blind to your stated major of interest. These schools do have a desire to maintain balance between their programs.
      - nostrademons 19y ago
        They're not blind, but you can also put down anything you want, including "undecided". I was certain I wanted to be a physics major when I applied to college. Things change.
- DocSavage 19y ago
  Stanford / Harvard / MIT. I'd give the edge to Stanford because it's in the middle of entrepreneur heaven. You could also major in Symbolic Systems instead of CS.
  - ilamont 19y ago
    Location is important, as well as talented faculty and networking opportunities, which gives these three schools an edge. But it's a mistake to think that these places have a monopoly on ideas or are stepping stones to great things in this business. A lot of Ivy Plus types get admitted to Harvard or Stanford on the basis of strong standardized test scores, which are not a good indicator of creativity. I know of a late '90s Harvard College CS grad who hasn't done anything remarkable with software development or Web technologies. An MIT grad I briefly worked with had some interesting insights, but many of her ideas came from other people. It's also important to recognize that someone with skills and a great idea can develop very special technologies no matter where they are studying CS -- or even if they are not formally studying anything. Shaun Fanning didn't come up with Napster at Harvard, he developed it at his dorm room at Northeastern. Jaron Lanier (the guy who coined the term "virtual reality" and developed many early applications) was a student researcher at New Mexico State University before heading off to the Valley. Bottom line: Seek out those schools with great faculty and programs that interest you, but remembver that success depends on the ideas bouncing around your head, not the name of the university on your resume.
    - DocSavage 19y ago
      I don't think any intelligent person thinks these places have a monopoly on ideas or a guaranteed path to success. Your point samples on MIT/Harvard people don't buttress your argument any more than my encounters with very creative people who were so smart that strong standardized scores were a natural offshoot of their abilities. We can say there are both bright people and uncreative people at universities. Yes, people can develop no matter where they study. I don't see anyone arguing that other places are the entrepreneurial equivalent of raising babies without light. The post's question was "best" place for a given aspiring tech entrepreneur. Location is key because "great faculty and programs" aren't just within the university. They include the guest angel investor speaking at a seminar, the Ruby hackers-entrepreneurs at the local gathering, the founders presenting at one of the many local showcases. They include events like YC Startup School, which I would probably not attend if I went to school in Virginia. Bottom line: Go to the place most conducive to your entrepreneurial aspirations that you can attend without troubling debt. Then make the most of your choice.
- ericwan 19y ago
  EE is also a good choice.
  - aswanson 19y ago
    I would disagree slightly here. EE is like majoring in assembly language. It is the wrong paradigm for value creation these days because most hardware startups require large capital expenditures upfront. EE training also forces you into a mode of thought that focuses on concrete implementation rather than making what people want. Turing taught us that any machine implemented in digital logic can be implemented with a basic microprocessor. Knowledge of transistor transfer functions and Nyquist plots are useless in a startup context these days. Comp Sci or bust.
limeade 19y ago
Harvard. Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, Mark Zuckerberg.
- boucher 19y ago
  Gates and Ballmer are part of the same good fortune, and I wouldn't be so quick to throw accolades on Zuckerburg. That being said, Harvard is probably a pretty good place to be.
- pg 19y ago
  Sergey Brin went to the University of Maryland. Larry Page went to Michigan. Marc Andreessen and Max Levchin went to the University of Illinois. This not to say some schools aren't better than others, but when people do great things it's usually because of who they are rather than where they went to college.
  - PStamatiou 19y ago
    my thoughts exactly.
  - neilc 19y ago
    Well, the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is a top 10 (arguably top 5) ranked CS department, and Michigan is no slouch, either. I agree with the gist of your point, though. The school you attend is considerably more important for grad school.
  - white 19y ago
    Well, I'm not fully agree on the examples with Sergey and Max. Sergey's father is a very qualified ex-soviet mathematician, he gave very good basics to Sergey. Max moved to US when he was 16. He's got grounds from the soviet education system, which was very different comparing to US. So, their college choice (theoretically) could not change their fate. ;) But in overall you're right. Don't treat college as your pass to success, however it could be your backup, just in case if you're not that smart as you think. ;)
- ericwan 19y ago
bharris 19y ago
Whichever college allows YOU to grow creatively, socially, and intellectually. This college is not necessarily Harvard, Stanford, UCLA, or Somestate University. As far as a degree, whichever you enjoy the most. Don't focus on the product; rather, HOW you reach it.
- motoko 19y ago
  ...A not-so-subtle way to make one look "wise" without an accountable response. Not useful.
  - bharris 19y ago
    So you'd rather spend four years of your life at a school which stymies your growth rather that nourishes it? I'd much rather make a decision to spend four precious years based on whether or not I feel like I would benefit, not because Bill Gates did.
    - motoko 19y ago
      No, I'd rather keep discussions mature. It "feels good" to devolve into diatribes, and trust me, if you know me, I HAVE... but the question here is "what undergrad schools should I consider." Back on topic, empirically, I know many people involved in startups with _some_ connection to Stanford, probably more so than any other single school. I know many people from UC Santa Cruz, too. Both may be because these are the two nearest good universities near Silicon Valley. Not so many from San Jose State University. Maybe stay away from that one.
      - chengmi 19y ago
        Gordon Moore (Intel) and Ed Oates (Oracle) both attended SJSU at some point in their careers. I think they turned out ok...
        motoko 19y ago
        How could I say that attending SJSU precludes one from success? I'm saying if one could attend either SJSU or UCSC that SJSU may not be the best choice generally even though SJSU is closer to silicon valley.
trekker7 19y ago
Go to a place with easy exams, cool course projects, and smart people.
prakash 19y ago
location, location, location: where are all the startup hubs? anywhere close to the valley, boston/cambridge, austin, seattle, nyc.
geebee 19y ago
As a Berkeley grad, it pains me to say this, but Stanford is almost certainly your best bet. It's great academically, and it seems to understand how to encourage students to get involved in startups. In the startup world, it's Stanford and everyone else. That said, "everyone else" still has some excellent options. MIT, Harvard,... yeah, all good options. But don't rule out the big public research universities. Berkeley and Illinois grads (among many others) have produced a lot of great startups - great by almost any measure (except that damn university to the south ;) )
jyu 19y ago
Stanford by far. Then MIT/Harvard. Everywhere else is roughly in the same magnitude. For undergrad, getting a business degree is pretty irrelevant to start ups. Get a technical degree, such as CS. Learn about start ups by evaluating different opportunities, reading case studies and books like "founders at work." You can test out ideas in your free time during the semester and winter break. It is important to get relevant internships during the summer.
daniel-cussen 19y ago
Stanford.
python_kiss 19y ago
For Canada: Waterloo University
iamelgringo 19y ago
Also is a computer science or business degree recommended? Computer science. Hands down. am wondering which college would be the best for an aspiring start up entrepreneur. I think that Stanford is obviously the best choice, they push entrepreneurship pretty hard. But at the same time, I don't really think that it's the school, it's the student. And, Stanford is really expensive. If you get in to Stanford and can get funded, great. If you can't get funded, I'd really try and balance the really high costs, how much work it's going to require to get in to Stanford and how much competition you'll have while you're there, with the benefits that Stanford will give you. You might be better off going to your local University of Foo state school, and working hard on your own to learn the types of technologies that you're going to use in your startup. Nothing can stop you from learning what you need to learn to start a business. The school I'm finishing up at-- University of Maryland--isn't a tech powerhouse. And, most of the CS education tends to have a slant towards Defense contracting, which means Java and Oracle (Ada for the advanced stuff. :) ). But, I've managed to squeeze out a decent education in web development since I've been there, I think. Another key factor in school selection is to keep expenses low. You're going to have a hard time starting a business after college if you're $125k in debt to school, and $25k in debt to credit cards because you went to a school that you couldn't afford. Your risk of failure is a lot lower if you have minimal expenses when you're done with college. If you can finish college with zero debt, your can take all the time you want to start a business as long as you have money for rent, ramen and bandwidth. I really think that people underestimate this aspect of being an entrepreneur. As an entrepreneur, it's in your best interest to run financially lean and mean: low cost, low debt.
- DocSavage 19y ago
  Stanford is stepping up financial aid: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/20/MNABV5LHM.DTL&tsp=1 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/20/... No tuition if your folks make < $100k. Full ride if they make < $60k. No more student loans so debt can be removed if you live within your means. Aside from the great CS education and networking, the location is really key. How many places in the world can a student attend entrepreneurial and hacking-type events every week (for free)? The local events may be too distracting (need to work!), but if I were a student again, I'd rather have the opportunities to pick & choose. Example: YC Startup School. I fully realize that other schools can be great and also have students just as good or better than Stanford. [I loved my time at Univ of Virginia.] But if the question is "best" environment for an aspiring tech entrepreneur, I think it's got to be here.
jksmith 19y ago
Recently my son and I sat through a combo-presentation given by Stanford, Penn, Harvard, Columbia, and Duke. The presentations were all good of course, with the presenters from Harvard, Penn, and Duke being the best. One point glaringly stuck out in the Duke presentation though. Even in your freshman year at Duke, you as a student can pitch the school with an idea, and they'll consider providing project funding and resources. None of the other schools suggested they would do this. Duke is obviously taking the entrepeneurial pulse right now, and consider promoting and cultivating entrepeneurship as a selling point for their school.
wheels 19y ago
You can learn (or incidentally, not learn) CS at most decent colleges. What I think is a lot more interesting about college is everything else that you'll learn there along the way and learning to get along and have fun with other smart people. When I was college shopping, I was choosing between a liberal arts school and a top-tier engineering school. I visited the engineering school and realized that while they had an amazing computer science program, the social outlook was rather drab. Only 20% girls, in the middle of nowhere, the people that I talked to didn't really seem to like it, but all assured me "that it was really a great college." Then I visited the liberal arts school. That was definitely the right choice. As it were, I had some great professors that really took an interest in my research and my life. I learned a lot about literature and philosophy and psychology and history and hung out with folks that weren't just gear heads. My world grew wider, not just deeper. Now, many years later I realize that after the first two years or so of CS I knew enough to be able to understand and find hard problems. But if I'd not been forced to take that massive block of core classes, I might have never realized that psychology is really interesting, that there are a lot of parallels between the way that architechts and programmers think or that you can meet a lot of cute girls if you hang out in the music department. So, why is that important? Well, when I was submitting my proposal for my senior research, I was stressed out because it didn't fit neatly into a specific department. It was on the line between CS, physics and biology. My advisor said something that's stuck with me to this day: "The interesting problems of the coming decades of computer science lie at the intersection between computer science and other fields." Getting a solid grasp on computer science in my opinion is critically important, but it's also pretty ubiquitous. (Though, sadly, it's pretty universally mediocre. A lot depends on your personal uptake.) What seems a lot more important to me is finding a place where you can cross-pollinate with other disciplines, meet a lot of different and interesting people and, well, enjoy yourself. The skills required for that seem to escape nerds much more often than the ability to sling code, and are essential in business interactions. A lot of people get caught up in getting into the dozen hardest to get into schools, but most colleges will have more people smarter than you than's names you can remember, and it's not that hard to find them.
- Spyckie 19y ago
  I would disagree with this, not because it isn't very good advice in general, but because its not good advice for entrepreneurs. The fact is that other people with motivation and drive to start something are quite rare to find in non top-tier schools, and you not only want people who think like an entrepreneur, but you also want them to be able to carry part of the load of the initial work (for web-based applications, code). Don't apply to the top tier schools because its something that everyone else is doing - do it because you'll find the best people there, and anything less is giving yourself a handicap that just isn't worth it. If you're scared about not making it into the top tier, well just remember, wanting to be an entrpreneur already puts you above many, many people. One thing I do agree on is that starting something requires more than just coding skills - your ability to socialize, to motivate other people, and to get along with others is critically important. However, I would recommend teaching yourself how to socialize and getting academic schooling on code rather than the other way around. If you're choosing your college based on where you can build a startup, you should look at 3 things: 1) Smart, motivated people. I would say Stanford, Harvard, MIT have taken most of them. Startups are rarely 1 person endeavors, and having a lot of candidates for a partner really helps. 2) Skills. This is why any top-tier university is good, because the skill-sets there are abundant. Plenty of smart people are looking for the next frontier, and you can give it to them. 3) Community. Most people don't get serious about entrepreneurship until they meet an entrepreneur. Make sure you have some sort of VC connection in your school, or a business program in entrepreneurship and a lively entrepreneur community. Also take entrepreneurial classes if you can, and try to connect with the community as fast as possible. I go to CMU (Carnegie Mellon), and while it has, to some extent, all of the 3 points above, I do sometimes regret not going somewhere better. The difference in the caliber of people and the quantity and quality of the entrepreneurs here is quite apparent. CMU has a lot of old VCs that don't really know the web, and the entrepreneur community here is mostly older people doing older stuff (but still fascinating startups). One thing I'm very satisfied with is the professors here teaching entrepreneurship, as they have their own companies and provide a LOT of advice and motivation (they just are limited in how much help they can give if you're doing a web startup). I would say its a tier or 2 below the top three. There seems to be a good correlation between the VC money in a certain area and how startup-friendly the colleges nearby are. Its best if you just follow that. also - business vs CS - do CS. The business school here at CMU produces the worst slackers-that-look-good-in-suits that I've ever seen. It does wonders to your presentation skills but kills your ability to do any serious work whatsoever.
white 19y ago
Choose Stanford (MIT, Harvard). The major benefit which you will get there is alumni and networking. If you are low on funds, you will have to be extremely wise on budget. But don't let debt scare you. When you are done, you can take two-three years working on other startups, get the rid of debt and gain priceless practical experience. And you can always bootstrap your own thing during your off-hours outside day job. Startup is not an easy thing, but if you have passion and willingness to win, nothing can stop you now. Don't be afraid and you'll be thankful to yourself for making this choice. "Being in your own business is working 80 hours a week so that you can avoid working 40 hours a week for someone else." (c) Ramona Arnett
prakash 19y ago
>Also is a computer science or business degree recommended? why not both?
far33d 19y ago
I went to brown - I loved it, it had a really great CS department, especially for an undergrad, and was overall an amazing social and academic experience. Not a big entrepreneurship culture in the CS department, but I think you can make that happen if that's what you want to do. College is all about the people. Find the one with the people you like the best and respect the most. You'll figure out the rest while you are there.
samt 19y ago
Someone has to mention Cornell. The undergrad community is intensely entrepreneurial, the CS department is top notch and you won't find nearly as many a-holes as at Harvard (half serious).
AnotherUser 19y ago
I'd highly recommend the University of Maryland's "Hinman CEOs" program. UMD has been pushing entrepreneurship very heavily in the past few years (especially in the engineering disciplines.) The Hinman program provides mentors, classes, living/learning environments, conference rooms, and other facilities to help potential entrepreneurs. Additionally, they bring in a steady stream of successful entrepreneurs to speak, network, and help you on your way. Add that to its close proximity to Washington D.C., good tuition, and highly ranked engineering/business departments, and you have a fairly good entrepreneurship package.
edw519 19y ago
If you're a junior in high school, I'd take as many college level courses (mostly math and CS) as I could in your senior year and seriously consider skipping college. I would normally never recommend this to anyone who cared about their future, but if you truly are an "aspiring start up entrepreneur", then you already know this is the right answer. In your case, college is an unnecessary detour.
- neilc 19y ago
  Strictly-speaking, it is unnecessary for an entrepreneur, but I wouldn't be very keen to skip college (what's the rush to start your first business? Your career as an entrepreneur doesn't end at 30). The educational background will be very useful -- you can learn Rails, SQL, and the like on your own, but tackling true CS subjects individually is not something a lot of people can truly do. Going to college is also a great experience, from a networking and personal maturity perspective.
  - edw519 19y ago
    For "networking" and "personal maturity", agreed. "but tackling true CS subjects individually is not something a lot of people can truly do" Unless they have jobs. Please don't kid yourself into thinking that CS in college is anything other than the warm-up act for the real thing. It's strictly optional.
    - neilc 19y ago
      Well, I'm just saying that the number of people with the enthusiasm to really, deeply grok, say, the PCP theorem, Bayes nets, or the FFT in their spare time is quite small. Sure, undergrad CS is just a "warm-up act for the real thing", but a solid grounding in all those topics is a really useful thing for someone planning a career doing technology startups.
alaskamiller 19y ago
Babson College for entrepreneurship. Any top 10 engineering school in the country for CS. You learn the same shit, it's the just level of immersion in the coursework and peer pressure that differentiate the school. A lot of mentions of Stanford here but how many of you actually went to school there? I swear to god somedays I think most of you are just card-carrying cargo-cultists.
- rms 19y ago
  I didn't go to Stanford... I didn't have a chance. But, it seems pretty clear that out of all the schools, the single best one for an entrepreneur is Stanford, as long as grades and money aren't an issue. Of course, a motivated student can do well wherever he or she goes but Stanford is the one to reach for, if you have a 1500 (2250 now?) on your SATS. I am curious what actually happens in a Babson entrepreneurship degree. Anyone go there?
- zasz 19y ago
  I go there. I have a good hacker friend who's been approached by other students or ex-students several times to form some sort of startup or to do other little programming projects. So far, they have all been miserable failures. No, not even failures, because they never even really tried. So what if people here are smart? I don't think they are nearly as motivated as most YC.ers think they are--god, just go to any meeting of a student group after the first couple weeks of the quarter, it's a shitload of, "Yeah I would've liked to go but I had a paper and a problem set due..." Same thing with the little projects that just fizzled. Of the wannabe entrepeneurs I've met here, nobody has shown the kind of commitment pg seems to think is necessary. I met them. They're still in school, still trying to balance a startup with getting their degree, still unable to commit themselves and take the plunge. I think the vast majority of Stanford students, or other elite students anywhere, are admitted because they put their schoolwork first. Sinking lots of time into any extracurricular, including entrepeneurship, is a sacrifice a lot of students aren't used to making and would have trained themselves to not make in high school, and in fact, such a sacrifice could have royally screwed them out of getting in in the first place, and almost certainly would have if they had gone to a very competitive high school. Seriously, FUCK STANFORD and don't worry about it. Just find a good school that's not too much pressure to get into.
mronge 19y ago
If you live in the midwest, I highly recommend the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. It's a top 5 CS program.
- falsestprophet 19y ago
  If you live in Illinois, it is a great idea. Otherwise, you will pay dearly for the degree.
menloparkbum 19y ago
Stanford has an amazing campus and most everyone there is very positive. It is like a little island for overachievers. MIT is great but the attitudes and environment are quite different. The campus is in a much more urban environment. Rather than the upbeat attitude at Stanford, MIT is more of a tough-love kind of school. "You might think you are smart, but really you suck and are lazy" is how motivation works at MIT. At Stanford it is more like "yo, we're all super smart. let's be rad and play ultimate frisbee later." I think it has something to do with the wildly different climates. This is very qualitative, but from my experience MIT is probably a better place to go if you want to do a form of engineering that requires crazy smarts that isn't computer science. Like hardcore electrical engineering, or bioengineering or material science or designing atomic weapons. Stanford is better for straight-up computer stuff. If you can get into one of those two schools you are a step ahead of the game. They are the only two schools in the USA that are worth their super inflated tuitions. Otherwise I'd just go to the best school you can get into that costs the least amount of money.
skmurphy 19y ago
The school of hard knocks? Dropping out seems to be a common path for successful entrepreneurs. Witness Bill Gates, Michael Dell, Steve Jobs, Walt Disney, to name a few in the technology space. Follow subjects that energize you; they are the ones that you will continue to get better at after you graduate. Entrepreneurship has very little to do with programming or college, and a lot to do with a relentless focus on value creation.
yters 19y ago
I would like to point out that if your aim is purely financial freedom, there are much easier ways to accomplish this.
bkrausz 19y ago
a) Answers without reasons are more or less alma mater shoutouts, I recommend you ignore them. b) Stanford and UIUC tend to be more entrepreneurial than other CS colleges (I find Carnegie Mellon/MIT tend to lean towards academia), but I'd say it's more important to go where you'll be happy...visit everywhere and find a place that won't drive you insane, since nothing kills the startup spirit faster than being forced to work day-in and day-out on things you don't enjoy. That being said, I love Carnegie Mellon :-P
aswanson 19y ago
Where the weather is warm and the energy is palpable. Where else but SomeSchool, CA? Any school near the valley. Hang on every campus you can't get in and get a good feel of the people you can build with. I envy you. Good luck.

17 points by deltapoint 19y ago

I am a Junior in high school and am wondering which college would be the best for an aspiring start up entrepreneur. Also is a computer science or business degree recommended?

rms 19y ago

Stanford. Computer Science. Good luck.

boucher 19y ago
From what I recall, Stanford accepts roughly 1% of applicants to the Computer Science program, compared with just over 10% for the University as a whole, making it one of the most competitive programs in the nation. On a side note, my alma mater, the University of Southern California, accepts roughly 25% of students as a whole, and a slightly lower percentage of computer science students (though I can't find specific numbers). I can't speak to knowing a large volume of entrepreneurs at USC, but I do know a few. The school itself has been making an impressive dedication to increasing entrepreneurship, however, especially in the Viterbi school of engineering. Mark Stevens, of Sequoia, recently funded a center for technology commercialization designed to help students build businesses out of research projects, and there are several student groups devoted to similar pursuits. Los Angeles is also not the valley, but it turns out that it is a decent alternative, I would say at least as much so as any other major city in the U.S. I'm not saying you should go to USC necessarily, but I enjoyed myself while I was there. One thing is certain, though, it is very different from Stanford.
- RyanGWU82 19y ago
  From what I recall, Stanford accepts roughly 1% of applicants to the Computer Science program, compared with just over 10% for the University as a whole, making it one of the most competitive programs in the nation. That may be true for Ph.D. students, but not for undergraduates. Undergraduate applications are reviewed without regards to major. You'll have an equal chance of getting in whether you express interest in CS or English. The Stanford admissions website confirms this. [1] The Ph.D. program may have acceptance rates approaching 1%, although I don't really think it's that low. Also, the master's program accepts a significantly higher percentage of applicants than the doctoral program. [1] "All applicants apply to Stanford through the Office of Undergraduate Admission, not to a particular school or department within the University, and Stanford does not give preference to any major." http://admission.stanford.edu/applying/1_8_faqs.html http://admission.stanford.edu/applying/1_8_faqs.html
  - boucher 19y ago
    You're right, in that I cannot find anyone claiming the significantly lower figure for CS admissions in particular. Even at 10%, it is among the most competitive programs in the country. Both Williams and Amherst, the top two liberal arts colleges in the US, have over 15% admissions, while Yale and Harvard come in usually between 8% and 10%. On a side note, I have some doubt that the admissions process is truly blind to your stated major of interest. These schools do have a desire to maintain balance between their programs.
    - nostrademons 19y ago
      They're not blind, but you can also put down anything you want, including "undecided". I was certain I wanted to be a physics major when I applied to college. Things change.
DocSavage 19y ago
Stanford / Harvard / MIT. I'd give the edge to Stanford because it's in the middle of entrepreneur heaven. You could also major in Symbolic Systems instead of CS.
- ilamont 19y ago
  Location is important, as well as talented faculty and networking opportunities, which gives these three schools an edge. But it's a mistake to think that these places have a monopoly on ideas or are stepping stones to great things in this business. A lot of Ivy Plus types get admitted to Harvard or Stanford on the basis of strong standardized test scores, which are not a good indicator of creativity. I know of a late '90s Harvard College CS grad who hasn't done anything remarkable with software development or Web technologies. An MIT grad I briefly worked with had some interesting insights, but many of her ideas came from other people. It's also important to recognize that someone with skills and a great idea can develop very special technologies no matter where they are studying CS -- or even if they are not formally studying anything. Shaun Fanning didn't come up with Napster at Harvard, he developed it at his dorm room at Northeastern. Jaron Lanier (the guy who coined the term "virtual reality" and developed many early applications) was a student researcher at New Mexico State University before heading off to the Valley. Bottom line: Seek out those schools with great faculty and programs that interest you, but remembver that success depends on the ideas bouncing around your head, not the name of the university on your resume.
  - DocSavage 19y ago
    I don't think any intelligent person thinks these places have a monopoly on ideas or a guaranteed path to success. Your point samples on MIT/Harvard people don't buttress your argument any more than my encounters with very creative people who were so smart that strong standardized scores were a natural offshoot of their abilities. We can say there are both bright people and uncreative people at universities. Yes, people can develop no matter where they study. I don't see anyone arguing that other places are the entrepreneurial equivalent of raising babies without light. The post's question was "best" place for a given aspiring tech entrepreneur. Location is key because "great faculty and programs" aren't just within the university. They include the guest angel investor speaking at a seminar, the Ruby hackers-entrepreneurs at the local gathering, the founders presenting at one of the many local showcases. They include events like YC Startup School, which I would probably not attend if I went to school in Virginia. Bottom line: Go to the place most conducive to your entrepreneurial aspirations that you can attend without troubling debt. Then make the most of your choice.
ericwan 19y ago
EE is also a good choice.
- aswanson 19y ago
  I would disagree slightly here. EE is like majoring in assembly language. It is the wrong paradigm for value creation these days because most hardware startups require large capital expenditures upfront. EE training also forces you into a mode of thought that focuses on concrete implementation rather than making what people want. Turing taught us that any machine implemented in digital logic can be implemented with a basic microprocessor. Knowledge of transistor transfer functions and Nyquist plots are useless in a startup context these days. Comp Sci or bust.

limeade 19y ago

Harvard. Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, Mark Zuckerberg.

boucher 19y ago
Gates and Ballmer are part of the same good fortune, and I wouldn't be so quick to throw accolades on Zuckerburg. That being said, Harvard is probably a pretty good place to be.
pg 19y ago
Sergey Brin went to the University of Maryland. Larry Page went to Michigan. Marc Andreessen and Max Levchin went to the University of Illinois. This not to say some schools aren't better than others, but when people do great things it's usually because of who they are rather than where they went to college.
- PStamatiou 19y ago
  my thoughts exactly.
- neilc 19y ago
  Well, the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is a top 10 (arguably top 5) ranked CS department, and Michigan is no slouch, either. I agree with the gist of your point, though. The school you attend is considerably more important for grad school.
- white 19y ago
  Well, I'm not fully agree on the examples with Sergey and Max. Sergey's father is a very qualified ex-soviet mathematician, he gave very good basics to Sergey. Max moved to US when he was 16. He's got grounds from the soviet education system, which was very different comparing to US. So, their college choice (theoretically) could not change their fate. ;) But in overall you're right. Don't treat college as your pass to success, however it could be your backup, just in case if you're not that smart as you think. ;)
ericwan 19y ago

bharris 19y ago

Whichever college allows YOU to grow creatively, socially, and intellectually. This college is not necessarily Harvard, Stanford, UCLA, or Somestate University. As far as a degree, whichever you enjoy the most. Don't focus on the product; rather, HOW you reach it.

motoko 19y ago
...A not-so-subtle way to make one look "wise" without an accountable response. Not useful.
- bharris 19y ago
  So you'd rather spend four years of your life at a school which stymies your growth rather that nourishes it? I'd much rather make a decision to spend four precious years based on whether or not I feel like I would benefit, not because Bill Gates did.
  - motoko 19y ago
    No, I'd rather keep discussions mature. It "feels good" to devolve into diatribes, and trust me, if you know me, I HAVE... but the question here is "what undergrad schools should I consider." Back on topic, empirically, I know many people involved in startups with _some_ connection to Stanford, probably more so than any other single school. I know many people from UC Santa Cruz, too. Both may be because these are the two nearest good universities near Silicon Valley. Not so many from San Jose State University. Maybe stay away from that one.
    - chengmi 19y ago
      Gordon Moore (Intel) and Ed Oates (Oracle) both attended SJSU at some point in their careers. I think they turned out ok...
      - motoko 19y ago
        How could I say that attending SJSU precludes one from success? I'm saying if one could attend either SJSU or UCSC that SJSU may not be the best choice generally even though SJSU is closer to silicon valley.

trekker7 19y ago

Go to a place with easy exams, cool course projects, and smart people.

prakash 19y ago

location, location, location: where are all the startup hubs? anywhere close to the valley, boston/cambridge, austin, seattle, nyc.

geebee 19y ago

As a Berkeley grad, it pains me to say this, but Stanford is almost certainly your best bet. It's great academically, and it seems to understand how to encourage students to get involved in startups. In the startup world, it's Stanford and everyone else. That said, "everyone else" still has some excellent options. MIT, Harvard,... yeah, all good options. But don't rule out the big public research universities. Berkeley and Illinois grads (among many others) have produced a lot of great startups - great by almost any measure (except that damn university to the south ;) )

jyu 19y ago

Stanford by far. Then MIT/Harvard. Everywhere else is roughly in the same magnitude. For undergrad, getting a business degree is pretty irrelevant to start ups. Get a technical degree, such as CS. Learn about start ups by evaluating different opportunities, reading case studies and books like "founders at work." You can test out ideas in your free time during the semester and winter break. It is important to get relevant internships during the summer.

daniel-cussen 19y ago

Stanford.

python_kiss 19y ago

For Canada: Waterloo University

iamelgringo 19y ago

Also is a computer science or business degree recommended? Computer science. Hands down. am wondering which college would be the best for an aspiring start up entrepreneur. I think that Stanford is obviously the best choice, they push entrepreneurship pretty hard. But at the same time, I don't really think that it's the school, it's the student. And, Stanford is really expensive. If you get in to Stanford and can get funded, great. If you can't get funded, I'd really try and balance the really high costs, how much work it's going to require to get in to Stanford and how much competition you'll have while you're there, with the benefits that Stanford will give you. You might be better off going to your local University of Foo state school, and working hard on your own to learn the types of technologies that you're going to use in your startup. Nothing can stop you from learning what you need to learn to start a business. The school I'm finishing up at-- University of Maryland--isn't a tech powerhouse. And, most of the CS education tends to have a slant towards Defense contracting, which means Java and Oracle (Ada for the advanced stuff. :) ). But, I've managed to squeeze out a decent education in web development since I've been there, I think. Another key factor in school selection is to keep expenses low. You're going to have a hard time starting a business after college if you're $125k in debt to school, and $25k in debt to credit cards because you went to a school that you couldn't afford. Your risk of failure is a lot lower if you have minimal expenses when you're done with college. If you can finish college with zero debt, your can take all the time you want to start a business as long as you have money for rent, ramen and bandwidth. I really think that people underestimate this aspect of being an entrepreneur. As an entrepreneur, it's in your best interest to run financially lean and mean: low cost, low debt.

DocSavage 19y ago
Stanford is stepping up financial aid: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/20/MNABV5LHM.DTL&tsp=1 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/20/... No tuition if your folks make < $100k. Full ride if they make < $60k. No more student loans so debt can be removed if you live within your means. Aside from the great CS education and networking, the location is really key. How many places in the world can a student attend entrepreneurial and hacking-type events every week (for free)? The local events may be too distracting (need to work!), but if I were a student again, I'd rather have the opportunities to pick & choose. Example: YC Startup School. I fully realize that other schools can be great and also have students just as good or better than Stanford. [I loved my time at Univ of Virginia.] But if the question is "best" environment for an aspiring tech entrepreneur, I think it's got to be here.

jksmith 19y ago

Recently my son and I sat through a combo-presentation given by Stanford, Penn, Harvard, Columbia, and Duke. The presentations were all good of course, with the presenters from Harvard, Penn, and Duke being the best. One point glaringly stuck out in the Duke presentation though. Even in your freshman year at Duke, you as a student can pitch the school with an idea, and they'll consider providing project funding and resources. None of the other schools suggested they would do this. Duke is obviously taking the entrepeneurial pulse right now, and consider promoting and cultivating entrepeneurship as a selling point for their school.

wheels 19y ago

You can learn (or incidentally, not learn) CS at most decent colleges. What I think is a lot more interesting about college is everything else that you'll learn there along the way and learning to get along and have fun with other smart people. When I was college shopping, I was choosing between a liberal arts school and a top-tier engineering school. I visited the engineering school and realized that while they had an amazing computer science program, the social outlook was rather drab. Only 20% girls, in the middle of nowhere, the people that I talked to didn't really seem to like it, but all assured me "that it was really a great college." Then I visited the liberal arts school. That was definitely the right choice. As it were, I had some great professors that really took an interest in my research and my life. I learned a lot about literature and philosophy and psychology and history and hung out with folks that weren't just gear heads. My world grew wider, not just deeper. Now, many years later I realize that after the first two years or so of CS I knew enough to be able to understand and find hard problems. But if I'd not been forced to take that massive block of core classes, I might have never realized that psychology is really interesting, that there are a lot of parallels between the way that architechts and programmers think or that you can meet a lot of cute girls if you hang out in the music department. So, why is that important? Well, when I was submitting my proposal for my senior research, I was stressed out because it didn't fit neatly into a specific department. It was on the line between CS, physics and biology. My advisor said something that's stuck with me to this day: "The interesting problems of the coming decades of computer science lie at the intersection between computer science and other fields." Getting a solid grasp on computer science in my opinion is critically important, but it's also pretty ubiquitous. (Though, sadly, it's pretty universally mediocre. A lot depends on your personal uptake.) What seems a lot more important to me is finding a place where you can cross-pollinate with other disciplines, meet a lot of different and interesting people and, well, enjoy yourself. The skills required for that seem to escape nerds much more often than the ability to sling code, and are essential in business interactions. A lot of people get caught up in getting into the dozen hardest to get into schools, but most colleges will have more people smarter than you than's names you can remember, and it's not that hard to find them.

Spyckie 19y ago
I would disagree with this, not because it isn't very good advice in general, but because its not good advice for entrepreneurs. The fact is that other people with motivation and drive to start something are quite rare to find in non top-tier schools, and you not only want people who think like an entrepreneur, but you also want them to be able to carry part of the load of the initial work (for web-based applications, code). Don't apply to the top tier schools because its something that everyone else is doing - do it because you'll find the best people there, and anything less is giving yourself a handicap that just isn't worth it. If you're scared about not making it into the top tier, well just remember, wanting to be an entrpreneur already puts you above many, many people. One thing I do agree on is that starting something requires more than just coding skills - your ability to socialize, to motivate other people, and to get along with others is critically important. However, I would recommend teaching yourself how to socialize and getting academic schooling on code rather than the other way around. If you're choosing your college based on where you can build a startup, you should look at 3 things: 1) Smart, motivated people. I would say Stanford, Harvard, MIT have taken most of them. Startups are rarely 1 person endeavors, and having a lot of candidates for a partner really helps. 2) Skills. This is why any top-tier university is good, because the skill-sets there are abundant. Plenty of smart people are looking for the next frontier, and you can give it to them. 3) Community. Most people don't get serious about entrepreneurship until they meet an entrepreneur. Make sure you have some sort of VC connection in your school, or a business program in entrepreneurship and a lively entrepreneur community. Also take entrepreneurial classes if you can, and try to connect with the community as fast as possible. I go to CMU (Carnegie Mellon), and while it has, to some extent, all of the 3 points above, I do sometimes regret not going somewhere better. The difference in the caliber of people and the quantity and quality of the entrepreneurs here is quite apparent. CMU has a lot of old VCs that don't really know the web, and the entrepreneur community here is mostly older people doing older stuff (but still fascinating startups). One thing I'm very satisfied with is the professors here teaching entrepreneurship, as they have their own companies and provide a LOT of advice and motivation (they just are limited in how much help they can give if you're doing a web startup). I would say its a tier or 2 below the top three. There seems to be a good correlation between the VC money in a certain area and how startup-friendly the colleges nearby are. Its best if you just follow that. also - business vs CS - do CS. The business school here at CMU produces the worst slackers-that-look-good-in-suits that I've ever seen. It does wonders to your presentation skills but kills your ability to do any serious work whatsoever.

white 19y ago

Choose Stanford (MIT, Harvard). The major benefit which you will get there is alumni and networking. If you are low on funds, you will have to be extremely wise on budget. But don't let debt scare you. When you are done, you can take two-three years working on other startups, get the rid of debt and gain priceless practical experience. And you can always bootstrap your own thing during your off-hours outside day job. Startup is not an easy thing, but if you have passion and willingness to win, nothing can stop you now. Don't be afraid and you'll be thankful to yourself for making this choice. "Being in your own business is working 80 hours a week so that you can avoid working 40 hours a week for someone else." (c) Ramona Arnett

prakash 19y ago

>Also is a computer science or business degree recommended? why not both?

far33d 19y ago

I went to brown - I loved it, it had a really great CS department, especially for an undergrad, and was overall an amazing social and academic experience. Not a big entrepreneurship culture in the CS department, but I think you can make that happen if that's what you want to do. College is all about the people. Find the one with the people you like the best and respect the most. You'll figure out the rest while you are there.

samt 19y ago

Someone has to mention Cornell. The undergrad community is intensely entrepreneurial, the CS department is top notch and you won't find nearly as many a-holes as at Harvard (half serious).

AnotherUser 19y ago

I'd highly recommend the University of Maryland's "Hinman CEOs" program. UMD has been pushing entrepreneurship very heavily in the past few years (especially in the engineering disciplines.) The Hinman program provides mentors, classes, living/learning environments, conference rooms, and other facilities to help potential entrepreneurs. Additionally, they bring in a steady stream of successful entrepreneurs to speak, network, and help you on your way. Add that to its close proximity to Washington D.C., good tuition, and highly ranked engineering/business departments, and you have a fairly good entrepreneurship package.

edw519 19y ago

If you're a junior in high school, I'd take as many college level courses (mostly math and CS) as I could in your senior year and seriously consider skipping college. I would normally never recommend this to anyone who cared about their future, but if you truly are an "aspiring start up entrepreneur", then you already know this is the right answer. In your case, college is an unnecessary detour.

neilc 19y ago
Strictly-speaking, it is unnecessary for an entrepreneur, but I wouldn't be very keen to skip college (what's the rush to start your first business? Your career as an entrepreneur doesn't end at 30). The educational background will be very useful -- you can learn Rails, SQL, and the like on your own, but tackling true CS subjects individually is not something a lot of people can truly do. Going to college is also a great experience, from a networking and personal maturity perspective.
- edw519 19y ago
  For "networking" and "personal maturity", agreed. "but tackling true CS subjects individually is not something a lot of people can truly do" Unless they have jobs. Please don't kid yourself into thinking that CS in college is anything other than the warm-up act for the real thing. It's strictly optional.
  - neilc 19y ago
    Well, I'm just saying that the number of people with the enthusiasm to really, deeply grok, say, the PCP theorem, Bayes nets, or the FFT in their spare time is quite small. Sure, undergrad CS is just a "warm-up act for the real thing", but a solid grounding in all those topics is a really useful thing for someone planning a career doing technology startups.

alaskamiller 19y ago

Babson College for entrepreneurship. Any top 10 engineering school in the country for CS. You learn the same shit, it's the just level of immersion in the coursework and peer pressure that differentiate the school. A lot of mentions of Stanford here but how many of you actually went to school there? I swear to god somedays I think most of you are just card-carrying cargo-cultists.

rms 19y ago
I didn't go to Stanford... I didn't have a chance. But, it seems pretty clear that out of all the schools, the single best one for an entrepreneur is Stanford, as long as grades and money aren't an issue. Of course, a motivated student can do well wherever he or she goes but Stanford is the one to reach for, if you have a 1500 (2250 now?) on your SATS. I am curious what actually happens in a Babson entrepreneurship degree. Anyone go there?
zasz 19y ago
I go there. I have a good hacker friend who's been approached by other students or ex-students several times to form some sort of startup or to do other little programming projects. So far, they have all been miserable failures. No, not even failures, because they never even really tried. So what if people here are smart? I don't think they are nearly as motivated as most YC.ers think they are--god, just go to any meeting of a student group after the first couple weeks of the quarter, it's a shitload of, "Yeah I would've liked to go but I had a paper and a problem set due..." Same thing with the little projects that just fizzled. Of the wannabe entrepeneurs I've met here, nobody has shown the kind of commitment pg seems to think is necessary. I met them. They're still in school, still trying to balance a startup with getting their degree, still unable to commit themselves and take the plunge. I think the vast majority of Stanford students, or other elite students anywhere, are admitted because they put their schoolwork first. Sinking lots of time into any extracurricular, including entrepeneurship, is a sacrifice a lot of students aren't used to making and would have trained themselves to not make in high school, and in fact, such a sacrifice could have royally screwed them out of getting in in the first place, and almost certainly would have if they had gone to a very competitive high school. Seriously, FUCK STANFORD and don't worry about it. Just find a good school that's not too much pressure to get into.

mronge 19y ago

If you live in the midwest, I highly recommend the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. It's a top 5 CS program.

falsestprophet 19y ago
If you live in Illinois, it is a great idea. Otherwise, you will pay dearly for the degree.

menloparkbum 19y ago

Stanford has an amazing campus and most everyone there is very positive. It is like a little island for overachievers. MIT is great but the attitudes and environment are quite different. The campus is in a much more urban environment. Rather than the upbeat attitude at Stanford, MIT is more of a tough-love kind of school. "You might think you are smart, but really you suck and are lazy" is how motivation works at MIT. At Stanford it is more like "yo, we're all super smart. let's be rad and play ultimate frisbee later." I think it has something to do with the wildly different climates. This is very qualitative, but from my experience MIT is probably a better place to go if you want to do a form of engineering that requires crazy smarts that isn't computer science. Like hardcore electrical engineering, or bioengineering or material science or designing atomic weapons. Stanford is better for straight-up computer stuff. If you can get into one of those two schools you are a step ahead of the game. They are the only two schools in the USA that are worth their super inflated tuitions. Otherwise I'd just go to the best school you can get into that costs the least amount of money.

skmurphy 19y ago

The school of hard knocks? Dropping out seems to be a common path for successful entrepreneurs. Witness Bill Gates, Michael Dell, Steve Jobs, Walt Disney, to name a few in the technology space. Follow subjects that energize you; they are the ones that you will continue to get better at after you graduate. Entrepreneurship has very little to do with programming or college, and a lot to do with a relentless focus on value creation.

yters 19y ago

I would like to point out that if your aim is purely financial freedom, there are much easier ways to accomplish this.

bkrausz 19y ago

a) Answers without reasons are more or less alma mater shoutouts, I recommend you ignore them. b) Stanford and UIUC tend to be more entrepreneurial than other CS colleges (I find Carnegie Mellon/MIT tend to lean towards academia), but I'd say it's more important to go where you'll be happy...visit everywhere and find a place that won't drive you insane, since nothing kills the startup spirit faster than being forced to work day-in and day-out on things you don't enjoy. That being said, I love Carnegie Mellon :-P

aswanson 19y ago

Where the weather is warm and the energy is palpable. Where else but SomeSchool, CA? Any school near the valley. Hang on every campus you can't get in and get a good feel of the people you can build with. I envy you. Good luck.