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On a purely moral level, I think capital punishment for murderers and traitors is absolutely justified. You, who have stolen a man's most precious possession, h

On a purely moral level, I think capital punishment for murderers and traitors is absolutely justified. You, who have stolen a man's most precious possession, his life, shall not enjoy the rest of your own. You, who have betrayed our nation and our security, will never again enjoy our protection. But in its practicalities, the chance for wrongful conviction, the cost to society, the anguish it causes the executioners, and the potential for abuse, I see many good reasons for abolition.

pilsetnieks 10y ago
> You, who have betrayed your nation and its security, will never again enjoy its protection. Which can also be accomplished by exile instead of killing.
- adrianN 10y ago
  The world ran out of Australias to send people to.
  - majewsky 10y ago
    That might be an interesting venue for space travel. Gather a bunch of convicts sentenced to exile, put them in a space ship where they can sustain themselves for the rest of their life [1], and send the ship onto a locked course into outer space. [1] At least in theory. In practice, a society of convicts will likely not hold up very long.
- marcoperaza 10y ago
  Retribution is a legitimate end of justice. Aside from the practical impossibility of exile as punishment in the modern world, I don't think exile fits the gravity of the crime of treason.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
harrybarry 10y ago
> I think capital punishment for murderers and traitors is absolutely justified The set of murderers is not identical to the set of those convicted of murder. Not are they not the same size, many of the elements in the latter are not in the former set.
nvahalik 10y ago
So I'm curious, then, about how you understand, say, life sentences? Aren't those effectively "death sentences" where men or women are effective paid to live the rest of their lives inside of the prison system—but with no chance to ever rejoin society? They know what exists outside but are doomed to live perhaps 30-60 years in prison cut off from family? Personally, I think we'd be better off getting rid of life sentences.
- VLM 10y ago
  "rejoin society" Only slightly derailing the conversation to point out that at current numbers and extrapolating some trends pretty soon the majority experience for some subgroups will be to have served some time in prison. At that point where society = ex con for some small enough local value of society, I don't think doing time like everyone else is going to involve any problem rejoining society, when everyone in your society did time. I mean, sure the odds of going to Stanford just dropped from 0.0001% to 0% which is very exciting for the theoretical 0.0001% person, but what kind of cultural influence can that possibly be for everyone else on either side given those numbers?
  - nvahalik 10y ago
    Perhaps you misunderstood my comment. I meant that why do we pay for people to spend the rest of their natural lives in prison with no chance to live a "normal"—go to school, have a career, start a family, provide for themselves—life?

pilsetnieks 10y ago

> You, who have betrayed your nation and its security, will never again enjoy its protection. Which can also be accomplished by exile instead of killing.

adrianN 10y ago
The world ran out of Australias to send people to.
- majewsky 10y ago
  That might be an interesting venue for space travel. Gather a bunch of convicts sentenced to exile, put them in a space ship where they can sustain themselves for the rest of their life [1], and send the ship onto a locked course into outer space. [1] At least in theory. In practice, a society of convicts will likely not hold up very long.
marcoperaza 10y ago
Retribution is a legitimate end of justice. Aside from the practical impossibility of exile as punishment in the modern world, I don't think exile fits the gravity of the crime of treason.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

harrybarry 10y ago

> I think capital punishment for murderers and traitors is absolutely justified The set of murderers is not identical to the set of those convicted of murder. Not are they not the same size, many of the elements in the latter are not in the former set.

nvahalik 10y ago

So I'm curious, then, about how you understand, say, life sentences? Aren't those effectively "death sentences" where men or women are effective paid to live the rest of their lives inside of the prison system—but with no chance to ever rejoin society? They know what exists outside but are doomed to live perhaps 30-60 years in prison cut off from family? Personally, I think we'd be better off getting rid of life sentences.

VLM 10y ago
"rejoin society" Only slightly derailing the conversation to point out that at current numbers and extrapolating some trends pretty soon the majority experience for some subgroups will be to have served some time in prison. At that point where society = ex con for some small enough local value of society, I don't think doing time like everyone else is going to involve any problem rejoining society, when everyone in your society did time. I mean, sure the odds of going to Stanford just dropped from 0.0001% to 0% which is very exciting for the theoretical 0.0001% person, but what kind of cultural influence can that possibly be for everyone else on either side given those numbers?
- nvahalik 10y ago
  Perhaps you misunderstood my comment. I meant that why do we pay for people to spend the rest of their natural lives in prison with no chance to live a "normal"—go to school, have a career, start a family, provide for themselves—life?