Hmm... you could argue that everything in a real world poker hand is predetermined since the cards are shuffled before they are dealt and they are not reordered

Hmm... you could argue that everything in a real world poker hand is predetermined since the cards are shuffled before they are dealt and they are not reordered thereafter. Of course, if you're playing online, future hands are also predetermined, a property that is not typically true when you are playing in real life, so I guess that makes it strange. The thing to keep in mind, though, is that as long as no one has the means to predict what will happen during a given hand (aside from using standard probability), then the game might as well not be predetermined. It's basically the same as the free will vs. destiny argument, as far as I can tell.