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As someone who got to use a PowerBook G4 (running 10.5.8) from time to time (in fact, I'm typing this very comment on it), I fail to see how their current UI is

by sirn 10y ago

As someone who got to use a PowerBook G4 (running 10.5.8) from time to time (in fact, I'm typing this very comment on it), I fail to see how their current UI is any more undiscoverable than the UI from 7 years ago. The trash icon was there in the Dock in 10.5, and still there in 10.11. The search function in help was there in 10.5, and still there in 10.11. To remove things from the Dock, right click the icon and the "Remove from dock" is still there in both versions. Any menu items that will open a dialog still indicates with three dots ("...") in both versions. Shortcut for opening dictionary is still not very discoverable in both versions (Cmd-Ctrl-D). I still don't know how to trigger Space/Expose without either using gesture (in 10.11) or look up the shortcut key (in 10.5). I always see people saying Apple UI got worse in discoverability for the past few years and make it sounds like earlier releases were perfect, but I don't believe that is true. The bad part of the UI interaction was always there (e.g. drag icon from the dock to somewhere to remove it). The main difference I see is that 10.11 has a LOT more features than the 10.5, but the core interaction remain the same in regard to discoverability. In 10.11, we're exposed more to gestures, because it's quick, but there is always alternative way to trigger something without gesture.

niccaluim 10y ago
I'd go back even further to find decent Mac UI, to the pre-X OS. Yes, it was a reliability garbage fire, but the Apple of that time really invested in usability. They published a 400-page book[1] for developers that explained the principles behind usability, showed how interface design fits into the development process, and gave specific guidelines for each type of interface element. The guidelines they publish today[2] are a lifeless husk by comparison. [1] http://interface.free.fr/Archives/Apple_HIGuidelines.pdf http://interface.free.fr/Archives/Apple_HIGuidelines.pdf [2] https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20000957-CH4-SW1 https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Us...
- mosselman 10y ago
  [1] is a great resource and a lot of it is still relevant. Thank you for linking to it.
- garrickvanburen 10y ago
  I read (and purchased) the HIG as a graphic design student in university. It inspired me to jump into the UI design w/ 2 feet.
jheriko 10y ago
I'm not sure it was every that great in OS X. My distant memories of system 7 do not include a frustration with this...
jonathankoren 10y ago
> As someone who got to use a PowerBook G4 (running 10.5.8) from time to time (in fact, I'm typing this very comment on it), I fail to see how their current UI is any more undiscoverable than the UI from 7 years ago. Problem: You plug in an external monitor and for some reason it doesn't immediately display an images. What do you do? In pre-el-Capitan, you open up the display settings pane and press the button marked "Detect Displays". In El Capitan, you open up the display settings pane and note that the button is not there. Are you screwed? It appears so. So you run a google search and discover that if you hold down the option key, the button that had been there for maybe 16 years magically appears in an area of what previously appeared to be blank in the dialog. I believe that's called the Indiana Jones UI pattern.[0] So yes, the discoverability has gotten worse over the years. This is something that was visible and made invisible. [0] http://youtu.be/xFntFdEGgws http://youtu.be/xFntFdEGgws
- e7c6ht6iad 10y ago
  The old way doesn't seem discoverable to me either. The only thing that I would find discoverable is typing "display" "monitor" "screen" into spotlight. Maybe this is just a personal quirk, but it makes me hate how spotlight will frequently show web or file text results instead of whatever it is I'm looking for. The best thing Apple could do for my user experience is have all of their employees spend a day tagging UI elements with every relevant search string they can think of.
deleted 10y ago
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by sirn 10y ago

niccaluim 10y ago

I'd go back even further to find decent Mac UI, to the pre-X OS. Yes, it was a reliability garbage fire, but the Apple of that time really invested in usability. They published a 400-page book[1] for developers that explained the principles behind usability, showed how interface design fits into the development process, and gave specific guidelines for each type of interface element. The guidelines they publish today[2] are a lifeless husk by comparison. [1] http://interface.free.fr/Archives/Apple_HIGuidelines.pdf http://interface.free.fr/Archives/Apple_HIGuidelines.pdf [2] https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20000957-CH4-SW1 https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Us...

mosselman 10y ago
[1] is a great resource and a lot of it is still relevant. Thank you for linking to it.
garrickvanburen 10y ago
I read (and purchased) the HIG as a graphic design student in university. It inspired me to jump into the UI design w/ 2 feet.

jheriko 10y ago

I'm not sure it was every that great in OS X. My distant memories of system 7 do not include a frustration with this...

jonathankoren 10y ago

> As someone who got to use a PowerBook G4 (running 10.5.8) from time to time (in fact, I'm typing this very comment on it), I fail to see how their current UI is any more undiscoverable than the UI from 7 years ago. Problem: You plug in an external monitor and for some reason it doesn't immediately display an images. What do you do? In pre-el-Capitan, you open up the display settings pane and press the button marked "Detect Displays". In El Capitan, you open up the display settings pane and note that the button is not there. Are you screwed? It appears so. So you run a google search and discover that if you hold down the option key, the button that had been there for maybe 16 years magically appears in an area of what previously appeared to be blank in the dialog. I believe that's called the Indiana Jones UI pattern.[0] So yes, the discoverability has gotten worse over the years. This is something that was visible and made invisible. [0] http://youtu.be/xFntFdEGgws http://youtu.be/xFntFdEGgws

e7c6ht6iad 10y ago
The old way doesn't seem discoverable to me either. The only thing that I would find discoverable is typing "display" "monitor" "screen" into spotlight. Maybe this is just a personal quirk, but it makes me hate how spotlight will frequently show web or file text results instead of whatever it is I'm looking for. The best thing Apple could do for my user experience is have all of their employees spend a day tagging UI elements with every relevant search string they can think of.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]