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The city of Vienna / Europe spends 632 Mio € alone on social housing. Another 3366 Mio € goes to other social and health services. [1] Vienna has no relevant h

by holri 10y ago

The city of Vienna / Europe spends 632 Mio € alone on social housing. Another 3366 Mio € goes to other social and health services. [1] Vienna has no relevant homeless problem. https://wien1x1.at/site/wp-content/blogs.dir/9/files/2014/06/14_Aufteilung_Einnahmen_Bereiche_0616.jpg https://wien1x1.at/site/wp-content/blogs.dir/9/files/2014/06...

the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
But also Austria spends a lot of efforts and. Oney to better distribute wealth. This has a positive impact overall because it reduces the extreme cases that can cost a lot of money and impact society. Social housing in Vienna is completely different than social housing in the US as an example. I just bought a flat in a building where the first three floors are social housing. That is not something you do in the us.
jomamaxx 10y ago
"The city of Vienna / Europe spends 632 Mio € alone on social housing." You've never been to Vienna or Austria if you are comparing San Francisco to Austria. Austria has a relatively homogenous culture, very conservative society (culturally, not politically). Relatively low rates of labour mobility meaning that you 'know your neighbours' - generally a communitarian attitude, (as opposed to fairly libertarian attitude in SF and US in general) and they don't have industries that generate tons more $ than others, which means no housing bubbles. You can rent flats not too far outside of Vienna very inexpensively. Just some things come to mind. Money matters, but it matters less than social conventions and culture. My hometown (in Canada) spends $0 on social housing (however, there is welfare and healthcare) and there is no homelessness. That said, housing is extremely inexpensive, and nobody really has a lot of money or opportunity either.
- holri 10y ago
  Vienna has no homogeneous culture. It is a cultural melting pot comparable to New York City. This roots back to the multicultural Habsburg state. At the moment Vienna grows by approx. 20000 people from all over the world by year. [1] The last years flat rent raised by 16%. If the city of Vienna would not build 13000 new cheap social flats every year, it would have problems like American cities. [1] https://www.wien.gv.at/statistik/bevoelkerung/images/bev-entwicklung-61-44.jpg https://www.wien.gv.at/statistik/bevoelkerung/images/bev-ent...
  - jomamaxx 10y ago
    Vienna is nothing comparable to NYC in terms of cosmopolitain, NYC is of a different variety entirely. Have you been to both? About 85% of NYC residents are from out of country or out of state. Nobody is from New York. Everybody living in Vienna since the 'Habsburg era' may as well just be 'Germanic', as far as their culture is relative to something like 'Jamaican' or 'Puerto Rican' or 'Chinese' or 'Indian' as you have in NYC. Also - I'm afraid you might be missing something called 'market dynamics'. People don't 'move to a place' and then 'wait for housing'. If X number of people are 'moving' to a city every year, then it's because there are already places there to buy or rent. Builders make the assessment of how much the city is growing (as you say, rents are going up - that's a sign of demand) and then build homes and flats based on the types of demand - which enables more people to come. Given the vast differentiation in prices between city and 'out of city' homes - it's patently absurd for taxpayers to subsidize expensive city living for some people and not others. The 'expensive' part is not the 'flat' - it's the 'property'. The best thing is to let market dynamics have it's way, and have cheaper apartments in the periphery where there is less demand. Reasonable rent controls protects people from being kicked out. Average rent in Toronto is about $2K for a one room flat. A simple subway ride to the suburbs, and it's less than half that. A little further and it's 66% cheaper. Trying to control home prices is like trying to control the tide of the sea. It's pointless. For the small amount of those 'very marginalized' - yes, maybe they need their rent paid for, but that's another story. And if all those newcomers to Vienna require 'subsidized housing' (which I doubt) then Vienna will not exist in 50 years.
    - holri 10y ago
      "Trying to control home prices is like trying to control the tide of the sea. It's pointless." Vienna has been controlling the home prices by building houses with great success for decades. [1] Vienna is the largest apartment owner in Europe and 220,000 community dwellings also the largest property management company in Europe. Hardly any other European city is so valued for their social housing as Vienna. https://www.wien.gv.at/english/housing/promotion/pdf/socialhous.pdf https://www.wien.gv.at/english/housing/promotion/pdf/socialh...

by holri 10y ago

the_mitsuhiko 10y ago

But also Austria spends a lot of efforts and. Oney to better distribute wealth. This has a positive impact overall because it reduces the extreme cases that can cost a lot of money and impact society. Social housing in Vienna is completely different than social housing in the US as an example. I just bought a flat in a building where the first three floors are social housing. That is not something you do in the us.

jomamaxx 10y ago

"The city of Vienna / Europe spends 632 Mio € alone on social housing." You've never been to Vienna or Austria if you are comparing San Francisco to Austria. Austria has a relatively homogenous culture, very conservative society (culturally, not politically). Relatively low rates of labour mobility meaning that you 'know your neighbours' - generally a communitarian attitude, (as opposed to fairly libertarian attitude in SF and US in general) and they don't have industries that generate tons more $ than others, which means no housing bubbles. You can rent flats not too far outside of Vienna very inexpensively. Just some things come to mind. Money matters, but it matters less than social conventions and culture. My hometown (in Canada) spends $0 on social housing (however, there is welfare and healthcare) and there is no homelessness. That said, housing is extremely inexpensive, and nobody really has a lot of money or opportunity either.

holri 10y ago
Vienna has no homogeneous culture. It is a cultural melting pot comparable to New York City. This roots back to the multicultural Habsburg state. At the moment Vienna grows by approx. 20000 people from all over the world by year. [1] The last years flat rent raised by 16%. If the city of Vienna would not build 13000 new cheap social flats every year, it would have problems like American cities. [1] https://www.wien.gv.at/statistik/bevoelkerung/images/bev-entwicklung-61-44.jpg https://www.wien.gv.at/statistik/bevoelkerung/images/bev-ent...
- jomamaxx 10y ago
  Vienna is nothing comparable to NYC in terms of cosmopolitain, NYC is of a different variety entirely. Have you been to both? About 85% of NYC residents are from out of country or out of state. Nobody is from New York. Everybody living in Vienna since the 'Habsburg era' may as well just be 'Germanic', as far as their culture is relative to something like 'Jamaican' or 'Puerto Rican' or 'Chinese' or 'Indian' as you have in NYC. Also - I'm afraid you might be missing something called 'market dynamics'. People don't 'move to a place' and then 'wait for housing'. If X number of people are 'moving' to a city every year, then it's because there are already places there to buy or rent. Builders make the assessment of how much the city is growing (as you say, rents are going up - that's a sign of demand) and then build homes and flats based on the types of demand - which enables more people to come. Given the vast differentiation in prices between city and 'out of city' homes - it's patently absurd for taxpayers to subsidize expensive city living for some people and not others. The 'expensive' part is not the 'flat' - it's the 'property'. The best thing is to let market dynamics have it's way, and have cheaper apartments in the periphery where there is less demand. Reasonable rent controls protects people from being kicked out. Average rent in Toronto is about $2K for a one room flat. A simple subway ride to the suburbs, and it's less than half that. A little further and it's 66% cheaper. Trying to control home prices is like trying to control the tide of the sea. It's pointless. For the small amount of those 'very marginalized' - yes, maybe they need their rent paid for, but that's another story. And if all those newcomers to Vienna require 'subsidized housing' (which I doubt) then Vienna will not exist in 50 years.
  - holri 10y ago
    "Trying to control home prices is like trying to control the tide of the sea. It's pointless." Vienna has been controlling the home prices by building houses with great success for decades. [1] Vienna is the largest apartment owner in Europe and 220,000 community dwellings also the largest property management company in Europe. Hardly any other European city is so valued for their social housing as Vienna. https://www.wien.gv.at/english/housing/promotion/pdf/socialhous.pdf https://www.wien.gv.at/english/housing/promotion/pdf/socialh...