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Funnily enough I was in Berlin not so long ago, and I stayed with some students who don't even own smart phones and they live very happy, healthy lives. They b

Funnily enough I was in Berlin not so long ago, and I stayed with some students who don't even own smart phones and they live very happy, healthy lives. They believe smart phones are a major threat to their privacy and wallet so they just don't bother with them at all. They just don't actually need them. It's had me thinking for sometime now whether or not I actually needed a AUD $1000+ smart phone, when I first purchased one it was only society that told me I needed one, no one else. Food for thought.

k-mcgrady 10y ago
That's interesting about the students. Were they geeks? Also was it definitely a case of 'we don't want them' or was that just a cover for 'we can't afford them'?
- paulasmuth 10y ago
  Speaking for myself: Berlin has a special kind of poor-is-sexy culture and this would not be too unusual. Lived there for 4yrs, most of them without a smartphone (had a 20eur burner phone for communication and to receive monitoring alerts). Had an absolute blast and didn't feel like I was missing a thing.
  - k-mcgrady 10y ago
    Interesting. I've only spent a few days in Berlin (about a year ago) and I definitely got that anti-consumerism vibe. I quite enjoyed it and people seemed pretty happy just hanging out and having a drink and some conversation in grimy bars that probably wouldn't survive in London. I'm generalising probably as it's a big city but in the area I was in I definitely got that impression.
  - yodsanklai 10y ago
    I had the opposite experience when I moved to the US (coming from Europe). It struck me how people consumed more of everything. Tech gadgets, food... I think in Europe we are a bit more defiant toward consumerism, esp. in more educated environments (but we're catching up!). It reminds me of a cool classic sci-fi movie about consumerism. John Carpenter's "They Live". I watched it as a kid but it started to make sense later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Live https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Live "Nada quickly discovers the sunglasses have unique properties: they reduce the colors of the world around him to black and white and allow him to see that media and advertising hide omnipresent subliminal totalitarian commands to obey, consume, reproduce, and conform. They also make clear that many people in positions of wealth and power are actually humanoid aliens with skull-like faces."
    - k-mcgrady 10y ago
      >> "It struck me how people consumed more of everything. Tech gadgets, food... I think in Europe we are a bit more defiant toward consumerism" Obviously it depends where you are in Europe. In the UK I'd say we're a lot more towards the American end of consumerism but they still take it much further. Food is the biggest jump for me. I still remember my first time in America and I was out for dinner. My friend suggested we split a meal as the portions were large. I still couldn't finish mine (and I eat quite a lot) and she brought home a doggie bag with enough food for two other people. And this was quite a nice restaurant too where I'd have expected smaller portions.
- kleiba 10y ago
  Smartphones are quite affordable in Germany even for students. I'm not a student anymore but I don't own a smartphone for the same reasons, even though I could afford one.
- germanier 10y ago
  Based on my limited interaction it seems pretty common among German university students to not own smartphones for reasons other than financial (but I can't tell you whether that's 5% or 25% of all students). Sometimes it's a conscious decision, sometimes they never felt a pressing need for owning one (given that among certain social circles they are not relied upon for communication). Even those that own one often don't carry them during routine days in university as they find themselves too distracted by it. Probably varies a lot by field. Social sciences probably have the lowest number of smartphone users. (Of course you also see a lot of heads buried in phones as soon as you step anywhere near a university – or anywhere else.) This also applies to graduates. People in the 25-35 age bracket around me have less smart phone usage than what I experienced in other countries. Among my friends almost anything is discussed face-to-face, via phone, or via email (in that order) and if I have to wait until the evening for an answer that's fine.
  - thr0waway1239 10y ago
    Someone, somewhere at Apple: "Damn those German students for being too productive - don't they know this is what causes trade imbalances and global instability. Can't they just be like everyone else and buy stuff they don't need?"
    - prostoalex 10y ago
      http://www.theonion.com/article/new-stem-initiative-just-tries-dissuade-students-o-53775 http://www.theonion.com/article/new-stem-initiative-just-tri...
- pmyjavec 10y ago
  One friend I made is studying sociology, he runs Linux and it's very important to him to run open source software. I wouldn't call him a geek, just a really conscientious person.
- usrusr 10y ago
  There's not really that much of a difference between "not want" and "not afford". There are two levels of "can't afford". One is "completely out of my league", the other is "i could, if i made compromises elsewhere". Owning a beaten-up low end smartphone for the utility (e.g. being able to check public transport times anywhere) is well within the "compromise" range for just about everybody, playing the "latest iPhone every fall" game would be clearly out of range for many. The "going low-tech" crowd just happens to be very sensitive (and hostile) to signs of consumerism and this perception blinds out all traces of utility they might see otherwise. "I'm too smart to play a game i can't win" is a very desirable status message to send and it's best conveyed by an old Nokia. Being in Berlin and having a good time also makes them pretty immune to the nagging question of "am i missing out on something big by not having a smartphone?" that is driving smartphone adoption in other parts of society (e.g. the elderly). PS: oh, and one argument in favor of "can't afford" crossed my mind nonetheless: some might actually think that they can't afford a smartphone. The really cheap options are not heavily advertised, so non-technical people in Germany often think that all smartphone ownership would be as expensive as the ridiculous "1€ iPhone" contracts they see on the billboards. Avoiding smartphone ownership because you are scared of hidden costs would be a very, very "german" thing to do.
Frondo 10y ago
Overall, it seems, smartphone ownership in Germany is less than the U.S., but not a whole lot less: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_smartphone_penetration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_smartphon...

k-mcgrady 10y ago

That's interesting about the students. Were they geeks? Also was it definitely a case of 'we don't want them' or was that just a cover for 'we can't afford them'?

paulasmuth 10y ago
Speaking for myself: Berlin has a special kind of poor-is-sexy culture and this would not be too unusual. Lived there for 4yrs, most of them without a smartphone (had a 20eur burner phone for communication and to receive monitoring alerts). Had an absolute blast and didn't feel like I was missing a thing.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  Interesting. I've only spent a few days in Berlin (about a year ago) and I definitely got that anti-consumerism vibe. I quite enjoyed it and people seemed pretty happy just hanging out and having a drink and some conversation in grimy bars that probably wouldn't survive in London. I'm generalising probably as it's a big city but in the area I was in I definitely got that impression.
- yodsanklai 10y ago
  I had the opposite experience when I moved to the US (coming from Europe). It struck me how people consumed more of everything. Tech gadgets, food... I think in Europe we are a bit more defiant toward consumerism, esp. in more educated environments (but we're catching up!). It reminds me of a cool classic sci-fi movie about consumerism. John Carpenter's "They Live". I watched it as a kid but it started to make sense later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Live https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Live "Nada quickly discovers the sunglasses have unique properties: they reduce the colors of the world around him to black and white and allow him to see that media and advertising hide omnipresent subliminal totalitarian commands to obey, consume, reproduce, and conform. They also make clear that many people in positions of wealth and power are actually humanoid aliens with skull-like faces."
  - k-mcgrady 10y ago
    >> "It struck me how people consumed more of everything. Tech gadgets, food... I think in Europe we are a bit more defiant toward consumerism" Obviously it depends where you are in Europe. In the UK I'd say we're a lot more towards the American end of consumerism but they still take it much further. Food is the biggest jump for me. I still remember my first time in America and I was out for dinner. My friend suggested we split a meal as the portions were large. I still couldn't finish mine (and I eat quite a lot) and she brought home a doggie bag with enough food for two other people. And this was quite a nice restaurant too where I'd have expected smaller portions.
kleiba 10y ago
Smartphones are quite affordable in Germany even for students. I'm not a student anymore but I don't own a smartphone for the same reasons, even though I could afford one.
germanier 10y ago
Based on my limited interaction it seems pretty common among German university students to not own smartphones for reasons other than financial (but I can't tell you whether that's 5% or 25% of all students). Sometimes it's a conscious decision, sometimes they never felt a pressing need for owning one (given that among certain social circles they are not relied upon for communication). Even those that own one often don't carry them during routine days in university as they find themselves too distracted by it. Probably varies a lot by field. Social sciences probably have the lowest number of smartphone users. (Of course you also see a lot of heads buried in phones as soon as you step anywhere near a university – or anywhere else.) This also applies to graduates. People in the 25-35 age bracket around me have less smart phone usage than what I experienced in other countries. Among my friends almost anything is discussed face-to-face, via phone, or via email (in that order) and if I have to wait until the evening for an answer that's fine.
- thr0waway1239 10y ago
  Someone, somewhere at Apple: "Damn those German students for being too productive - don't they know this is what causes trade imbalances and global instability. Can't they just be like everyone else and buy stuff they don't need?"
  - prostoalex 10y ago
    http://www.theonion.com/article/new-stem-initiative-just-tries-dissuade-students-o-53775 http://www.theonion.com/article/new-stem-initiative-just-tri...
pmyjavec 10y ago
One friend I made is studying sociology, he runs Linux and it's very important to him to run open source software. I wouldn't call him a geek, just a really conscientious person.
usrusr 10y ago
There's not really that much of a difference between "not want" and "not afford". There are two levels of "can't afford". One is "completely out of my league", the other is "i could, if i made compromises elsewhere". Owning a beaten-up low end smartphone for the utility (e.g. being able to check public transport times anywhere) is well within the "compromise" range for just about everybody, playing the "latest iPhone every fall" game would be clearly out of range for many. The "going low-tech" crowd just happens to be very sensitive (and hostile) to signs of consumerism and this perception blinds out all traces of utility they might see otherwise. "I'm too smart to play a game i can't win" is a very desirable status message to send and it's best conveyed by an old Nokia. Being in Berlin and having a good time also makes them pretty immune to the nagging question of "am i missing out on something big by not having a smartphone?" that is driving smartphone adoption in other parts of society (e.g. the elderly). PS: oh, and one argument in favor of "can't afford" crossed my mind nonetheless: some might actually think that they can't afford a smartphone. The really cheap options are not heavily advertised, so non-technical people in Germany often think that all smartphone ownership would be as expensive as the ridiculous "1€ iPhone" contracts they see on the billboards. Avoiding smartphone ownership because you are scared of hidden costs would be a very, very "german" thing to do.

Frondo 10y ago

Overall, it seems, smartphone ownership in Germany is less than the U.S., but not a whole lot less: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_smartphone_penetration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_smartphon...